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Capitalism is unfolding exactly as Karl Marx predicted

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  • #16
    What would we do without Phil? Best Chinaman than I know.

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    • #17
      Did the OP just melt away?

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      • #18
        Let's not delude ourselves into thinking there aren't "socialist" aspects of our economy and the structure of our country. There's a big difference between socialist and communist, countries like Finland, Denmark, etc. are all thriving as systems with very heavy socialist tendencies.

        Anyway, I definitely hope we aren't far off from what smitty describes, and it is quite ironic that universal income (oh no, socialism) is a likely end result of a strong capitalist (primarily) system.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Simpleton View Post
          countries like Finland, Denmark, etc. are all thriving as systems
          Systems which don't happen to have any real need for self defense, since the US and NATO provide it. When folks compare the economic and social levels of the different countries, it's never thought of that most of the ones many wish we would emulate, don't spend much of their GDP in protecting the world from despotism.
          Anyway, I definitely hope we aren't far off from what smitty describes, and it is quite ironic that universal income (oh no, socialism) is a likely end result of a strong capitalist (primarily) system.
          "The Singularity is Near" by Kurtzweil. Excellent read if you're of a mind to.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by DCUDoomsday View Post
            Systems which don't happen to have any real need for self defense, since the US and NATO provide it. When folks compare the economic and social levels of the different countries, it's never thought of that most of the ones many wish we would emulate, don't spend much of their GDP in protecting the world from despotism.
            "The Singularity is Near" by Kurtzweil. Excellent read if you're of a mind to.
            That is true but my point is not that the US should be modeled after those countries. My point is that a large number of people in this country react like Pavlov's dogs to the word "socialism" like it is some inherently evil concept that will spell the end of "America" as they view it.

            In reality there are plenty of socialist policies and institutions in this country that have worked perfectly fine and helped create the standard of living we have today.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Simpleton View Post

              In reality there are plenty of socialist policies and institutions in this country that have worked perfectly fine and helped create the standard of living we have today.
              I think there could be a lot of debate as to those policies working perfectly fine and actually improving the standard of living. I think in a lot of ways you could argue the exact opposite in this country at least. Not all but a lot of them.

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              • #22
                As Garry Kasparov has said, successful socialist societies are only possible because of prior wealth built on the back of capitalism.

                I think it's hilarious when brainwashed millennials (and olders) think they know more about communism than a highly intelligent person who has actually lived both systems.
                2014=2009, 2015=2010?

                The Garrett Song

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Simpleton View Post
                  That is true but my point is not that the US should be modeled after those countries.
                  I understood that and was commenting on those who do believe that and what they never think of.
                  My point is that a large number of people in this country react like Pavlov's dogs to the word "socialism" like it is some inherently evil concept that will spell the end of "America" as they view it.
                  True, actual socialism would do that.

                  In reality there are plenty of socialist policies and institutions in this country that have worked perfectly fine and helped create the standard of living we have today.
                  These policies and institutions COULD be called socialist, but it's more accurate to call them "socialist-like" since they're really not socialism per se. Strictly speaking, it could be well argued that publicly held companies for example, exude the most basic tenet of socialism whereby the means of production is owned and regulated by the community as a whole (shareholders) and democratically controlled (shareholder's meetings.)

                  That doesn't mean that our system of publicly held corporations is a socialist system in and of itself.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by DCUDoomsday View Post
                    I understood that and was commenting on those who do believe that and what they never think of.True, actual socialism would do that.

                    These policies and institutions COULD be called socialist, but it's more accurate to call them "socialist-like" since they're really not socialism per se. Strictly speaking, it could be well argued that publicly held companies for example, exude the most basic tenet of socialism whereby the means of production is owned and regulated by the community as a whole (shareholders) and democratically controlled (shareholder's meetings.)

                    That doesn't mean that our system of publicly held corporations is a socialist system in and of itself.
                    It's not a socialist system at all but there are socialist aspects, which is fine and helpful in moderation. My problem is that people use "socialism" like a boogeyman for whatever they don't like and assume it has some nefarious overtones when in reality there are aspects of socialism in most democracies around the world.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Chocolate Lab View Post
                      As Garry Kasparov has said, successful socialist societies are only possible because of prior wealth built on the back of capitalism.

                      I think it's hilarious when brainwashed millennials (and olders) think they know more about communism than a highly intelligent person who has actually lived both systems.
                      I don't disagree but this is another problem, the "capitalist" vs. "socialist" mindset. America is not a true capitalist society by any stretch of the imagination (majority, yes), but whenever these types of buzzwords are thrown around people take that mindset instead of realizing that the majority of the world is really on a sliding scale of capitalist/socialist.

                      There are very few pure capitalist or pure socialist societies out there and there is a gigantic difference between an authoritarian socialist/communist country and a democracy that has significant socialist tendencies in their system.

                      An authoritarian country is going to be a piece of shit whether it's capitalist or socialist.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Simpleton View Post
                        It's not a socialist system at all but there are socialist aspects, which is fine and helpful in moderation. My problem is that people use "socialism" like a boogeyman for whatever they don't like and assume it has some nefarious overtones when in reality there are aspects of socialism in most democracies around the world.
                        With very broad use of the term, sure. That doesn't mean the broad use is at all accurate.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Simpleton View Post
                          I don't disagree but this is another problem, the "capitalist" vs. "socialist" mindset. America is not a true capitalist society by any stretch of the imagination (majority, yes), but whenever these types of buzzwords are thrown around people take that mindset instead of realizing that the majority of the world is really on a sliding scale of capitalist/socialist.

                          An authoritarian country is going to be a piece of shit whether it's capitalist or socialist.
                          No doubt it's a sliding scale. But you have to admit we've always been to the end of the capitalist side. Certain forces like the author in the OP are trying to pull us to the left, however.
                          2014=2009, 2015=2010?

                          The Garrett Song

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