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Watkins: The Cowboys’ trade for Amari Cooper signals a sense of desperation

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Angrymesscan View Post
    It's just not smart business to give away your first, which should translate to 4 years of high level production for a pittance.
    I guess the historical impact of first round WRs drove them to rationalize the price.

    If they had decided that the need was so great they they would have to force a WR pick, then decided to go with a somewhat proven player.

    That's the best I can do to feel better about it.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Donpingon View Post
      How about if Cooper turns into a 5-6 year starter and avgs 1000/8? Just curious to know everyone’s threshold for the trade

      He needs to be more than that. We're on the hook for 14 mill next season and, presumably, his second contract which is going to be pricey. The margin for victory with this trade is fucking narrow.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Cujo View Post
        He needs to be more than that. We're on the hook for 14 mill next season and, presumably, his second contract which is going to be pricey. The margin for victory with this trade is fucking narrow.
        I don't know that I agree with that. We aren't a high volume passing attack. So the opportunities will be limited. If in those limited opportunities he is able to produce at that level I'd say it's worth the cost. Might be different if we were a team that attempts 35-40 passes a game. But when you're more in the 25-30 range you're just not going to get there. That doesn't mean the WR doesn't have an impact though. If he is helping to open things up for the running game for example that's sort of hidden yardage that won't show up in his stats.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by p1_ View Post
          Hurns was a woefully weak answer to replacing Dez. I think Watkins might have been a good solution, but they apparently deemed him too expensive. And thus desperate Jerry bids against himself and hopes that it means the difference in making the playoffs.
          Why is that? Dez contributed very little to the team over the past two seasons.
          Since Day One

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          • #35
            Originally posted by NoDak View Post
            After digesting this trade the last couple days, I've come in off the ledge. It might not be nearly as bad as an emotional fan first thinks it was. When I heard we'd traded a first round draft pick, that was the main target of my angst. Not the player. The draft pick. I instantly hated the trade because we traded out of the first. I instantly hated it before thinking about all the different angles. I'm a fan. That's what we do.

            But now that a little time has passed, this trade doesn't look nearly as bad to me as it did at first glance. I still hate the fact that we won't have a first round draft pick this year unless something drastic happens. But after listening to a bunch of NFL pundits, I'm beginning to see that there are benefits to this trade.

            A curious thing is happening with this trade and people's opinion of it. There are people that hate it, and there are people that like it. Even some that love it. Far more people on the edges of the scale than there are in the middle of it. And it seems that most of the people that like the trade, are actual football people. People that have either played or coached in the league. People that get paid to analyze the game. The people that hate it are the fans. The people that wear their emotions on their sleeves when it comes to the teams they follow. The people that want to pour over the draft to see who their team will select with that first round pick.

            Even so, I'm still not in the crowd that thinks this was a good trade. I know the talent of the player, and I know the need of the team. But I'm not in the crowd that hates the trade like I initially was, either. I still hate the fact we don't have a first round draft pick. But I'm willing to see if this can work out. Willing to give Dak a little time to see if he can make it work with him. See if he's worth keeping around after having a better receiving group to work with.

            I'm not willing to give Garrett more time, though. Fuck that guy.
            Post more, seriously.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Cowboysrock55 View Post
              I don't know that I agree with that. We aren't a high volume passing attack. So the opportunities will be limited. If in those limited opportunities he is able to produce at that level I'd say it's worth the cost. Might be different if we were a team that attempts 35-40 passes a game. But when you're more in the 25-30 range you're just not going to get there. That doesn't mean the WR doesn't have an impact though. If he is helping to open things up for the running game for example that's sort of hidden yardage that won't show up in his stats.
              If they somehow ditch Garrett though I could see another HC/OC opening things up a bit.

              Garrett is stuck in the “run sets up the pass” fantasy world of the 90’s. I don’t know of any other teams that really follow that blueprint anymore. And when no DC is afraid of your passing game because you haven’t thrown for 200 yards in multiple games, then that 90s offensive ideaology really sucks.

              I think if Dak was allowed to throw it around 40 times a game that still leaves 15-20 carries available for Zeke which I’m sure would be productive carries because the passing game (hopefully) would be productive and the defense wouldn’t be sitting and waiting to shut down the run game.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by UncleMilti View Post
                If they somehow ditch Garrett though I could see another HC/OC opening things up a bit.

                Garrett is stuck in the “run sets up the pass” fantasy world of the 90’s. I don’t know of any other teams that really follow that blueprint anymore. And when no DC is afraid of your passing game because you haven’t thrown for 200 yards in multiple games, then that 90s offensive ideaology really sucks.

                I think if Dak was allowed to throw it around 40 times a game that still leaves 15-20 carries available for Zeke which I’m sure would be productive carries because the passing game (hopefully) would be productive and the defense wouldn’t be sitting and waiting to shut down the run game.
                Well that's true, I was speaking more for the expectations in our current offense.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by NoDak View Post
                  After digesting this trade the last couple days, I've come in off the ledge. It might not be nearly as bad as an emotional fan first thinks it was. When I heard we'd traded a first round draft pick, that was the main target of my angst. Not the player. The draft pick. I instantly hated the trade because we traded out of the first. I instantly hated it before thinking about all the different angles. I'm a fan. That's what we do.

                  But now that a little time has passed, this trade doesn't look nearly as bad to me as it did at first glance. I still hate the fact that we won't have a first round draft pick this year unless something drastic happens. But after listening to a bunch of NFL pundits, I'm beginning to see that there are benefits to this trade.

                  A curious thing is happening with this trade and people's opinion of it. There are people that hate it, and there are people that like it. Even some that love it. Far more people on the edges of the scale than there are in the middle of it. And it seems that most of the people that like the trade, are actual football people. People that have either played or coached in the league. People that get paid to analyze the game. The people that hate it are the fans. The people that wear their emotions on their sleeves when it comes to the teams they follow. The people that want to pour over the draft to see who their team will select with that first round pick.

                  Even so, I'm still not in the crowd that thinks this was a good trade. I know the talent of the player, and I know the need of the team. But I'm not in the crowd that hates the trade like I initially was, either. I still hate the fact we don't have a first round draft pick. But I'm willing to see if this can work out. Willing to give Dak a little time to see if he can make it work with him. See if he's worth keeping around after having a better receiving group to work with.

                  I'm not willing to give Garrett more time, though. Fuck that guy.
                  Yeah, I would have quickly come over to the "like it" side if this was a second. It would have been instant "love it" for anything less than that.

                  A first, eh. No, I just can't. Too much. It's an overpay. Yes, he's 24 and a 2 time Pro Bowler.

                  But there's also a downward trend and 4 seasons of contact on his body despite being 24. Look at Tyron Smith -- only like 28 and breaking down when normally a player that age would be in his physical prime.

                  But yeah, I hate the price, not the player. This is about as big an impact player you are gonna find. Still, it's gonna suck if we lose out on an LVE or Zach Martin at a position of non immediate need, simply because we decided that not only did we need to lock ourselves into having a WR with our 2019 first round pick, but that we needed to do so 6 months early.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    I still hate it.
                    #Fire Garrett

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      As a practical matter is is a reasonable move to go ahead and get a proven WR if that was the number 1 target for the next draft. If nothing else the test for whether Dak can take the next step is in place and will be answered this season so this trade serves more than one question to be resolved.
                      Since Day One

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by UncleMilti View Post
                        If they somehow ditch Garrett though I could see another HC/OC opening things up a bit.

                        Garrett is stuck in the “run sets up the pass” fantasy world of the 90’s. I don’t know of any other teams that really follow that blueprint anymore. And when no DC is afraid of your passing game because you haven’t thrown for 200 yards in multiple games, then that 90s offensive ideaology really sucks.

                        I think if Dak was allowed to throw it around 40 times a game that still leaves 15-20 carries available for Zeke which I’m sure would be productive carries because the passing game (hopefully) would be productive and the defense wouldn’t be sitting and waiting to shut down the run game.
                        The reality is we set up the run with the pass just as often as the reverse in the 1990’s. In 2014 when defenses like New Orleans stuffed Murray, Romo had to back them off with the pass.

                        You can’t always lead with the run, but to pass you need people who can get open.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by ravidubey View Post
                          The reality is we set up the run with the pass just as often as the reverse in the 1990’s. In 2014 when defenses like New Orleans stuffed Murray, Romo had to back them off with the pass.

                          You can’t always lead with the run, but to pass you need people who can get open.
                          You also need a coaching staff willing to make adjustments. We don't ever try to exploit people by doing anything but running the ball.

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