Jerry pulls trigger for Cooper

[Simpleton]

It's a valid point but it needs to be put in perspective. How does it compare with other NFL QBs? Because I'm not sure I've watched an NFL game where a QB didn't miss an open receiver on a play. So is Dak doing it at an alarming rate and is holding the receivers back? Or is Dak missing open guys on a rate similar to other QBs? I honestly don't know.

But it's also why every NFL QB believes they can get better. Because they all leave some plays on the field. And Dak definitely did against the Skins. Even though he generally threw the ball well.

He has issues processing his reads and anticipating throws, sometimes it shows up more than others, although its definitely an issue and he's definitely missed open WR's for big plays. I'm willing to give him the next 1.5 years but if he doesn't improve and/or play more consistently like he did against the Jags/Skins then it's for sure time to exploring options to move on.

As Parcells said, you can't just dial 1-800-Quarterback so the opportunity might not be readily available but that's when I'd start looking to be aggressive in getting a new QB.

 

[mcnuttz]

As Parcells said, you can't just dial 1-800-Quarterback so the opportunity might not be readily available but that's when I'd start looking to be aggressive in getting a new QB.

And now we don't have ammo to move around to get a top QB in the draft, so we're pretty much stuck with Dak.

Hopefully he'll get a new offensive staff in here ASAP and salvage the guy before they ruin him for good.

 

[Simpleton]

I read an article somewhere in which the writer speculated that the addition of Cooper puts added pressure on Jason Carot. Jerry's mortgaging the farm, so to speak, to salvage THIS SEASON -- not for next season.

No playoffs, no Carot. If that's true I'm all for the Cooper trade, boneheaded as it may be.

Could be the case. The overlooked thing here is that basically the entire offensive coaching staff was turned over aside from Garrett/Linehan. New position coaches at QB, WR and OL, now they're giving up a 1st to again try to get Garrett/Linehan what they need. Now there will be nobody left to blame but the guys at the top, barring injuries.

If we don't make the playoffs someone is going to be gone, Linehan at the very least, but I'd hope that these morons are smart enough to not allow Garrett to use Linehan as a scapegoat like he has others in the past.

I'm not counting on it though.

 

[Simpleton]

And now we don't have ammo to move around to get a top QB in the draft, so we're pretty much stuck with Dak.

Hopefully he'll get a new offensive staff in here ASAP and salvage the guy before they ruin him for good.

That is true although this QB class is going to be straight shit if Herbert goes back to school so its not really that big a deal, and even if he does come out it'd be an extremely high risk class to take a shot on.

 

[1bigfan13]

Well if we can get past the price of the trade, which is granted pretty difficult, we should really think about the logistics of this player on this team.

Cooper is a route runner and can get separation like no-one on this roster. Also his speed prevents CBs from eating up the separation after his cuts (unlike Beasley).

He is a deep threat and I think this also fits as we have a QB who actually throws a damn good deep ball.

The guy is tallish at 6'1" but is thickly built. He can go up and high point a ball.

The timing of the trade is ideal. He is coming in right at the bye. This will give him 2 weeks to learn the playbook and get up to speed. Obviously he probably won't be able to fully digest it but they can certainly make sure he can learn the bread and butter stuff.

Now here is the question, how similar is the Oakland offense to ours? Is it a timing offense (Zampese) or WCO? Will the transition and terminology be similar? Just curious as this isn't really discussed.

I don't even think the 2 weeks will be enough. I honestly can't recall the last time a midseason trade for a WR immediately paid dividends.

Seems like it almost always takes WRs a full offseason to really get going with their new team.

So I'm not expecting much from Cooper this season. IMO, this trade is more about 2019 than 2018.

 

[mcnuttz]

That is true although this QB class is going to be straight shit if Herbert goes back to school so its not really that big a deal, and even if he does come out it'd be an extremely high risk class to take a shot on.

It's maddeningly amusing how Dallas loves to throw 1st rounders away for WRs.

Seems like Gallup is starting to get comfortable. Giving a guy another option who already isn't seeing routes develop seems like a Jerry move, and I'm not surprised one bit.

I would have rather had Earl Thomas who could have pushed this excellent defense into elite status if we just don't want our 1st rounders.

Hopefully Cooper doesn't have the complications from concussion that Rico had last year.

 

[Simpleton]

It's maddeningly amusing how Dallas loves to throw 1st rounders away for WRs.

Seems like Gallup is starting to get comfortable. Giving a guy another option who already isn't seeing routes develop seems like a Jerry move, and I'm not surprised one bit.

I would have rather had Earl Thomas who could have pushed this excellent defense into elite status if we just don't want our 1st rounders.

Hopefully Cooper doesn't have the complications from concussion that Rico had last year.

Yea the fact that they balked at a 2 for Thomas made me think they'd never give a 1 for Cooper but here we are. I guess its really all about the fact that Cooper is 24 and Thomas is nearly 30, although I think there's a decent chance we end up signing Thomas in 5 months.

 

[1bigfan13]

That is true although this QB class is going to be straight shit if Herbert goes back to school so its not really that big a deal, and even if he does come out it'd be an extremely high risk class to take a shot on.

Aside from Tua I have no idea what's out there for 2020 QBs. Unless things go terribly wrong and we suffer a rash of injuries, I don't see us being in position to draft Tua without a trade up, which I'd definitely be open to.

 

[Simpleton]

Aside from Tua I have no idea what's out there for 2020 QBs. Unless things go terribly wrong and we suffer a rash of injuries, I don't see us being in position to draft Tua without a trade up, which I'd definitely be open to.

I'd give up a Goff or Wentz-type bounty to move up for him although I highly doubt this front office would unless Dak craters next year.

If Herbert goes back to school and becomes more consistent next year he'd be another guy I'd look at, same with Haskins if he decides to stay.

This is kind of a funny year because the top guys (Herbert/Haskins) haven't played very much and have obvious warts, although because the demand for the position is so high, and because the rest of the class is so weak, their draft stock could be elevated beyond where it should be.

If one stays, or especially both, then it could be setting up for a strong 2020 class.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

That is true although this QB class is going to be straight shit if Herbert goes back to school so its not really that big a deal, and even if he does come out it'd be an extremely high risk class to take a shot on.

Yeah I still kind of like Drew Lock but he isn't a top 5 pick in my opinion. More of a guy that should go in the second round but might go in the first because of a lack of any type of talent at QB for the first round. He is a raw talent that could use a year or so sitting on the bench. He has really struggled against good SEC defenses but then he dominates weaker opponents. I like his arm and elusive ability though. Still it's looking like one more year with Dak which is ok. Dak has been getting better as this year has gone on. His numbers against the Skins just from a purely throwing perspective were pretty good. My hope is that a new coaching staff can get him reading defenses better and playing more aggressive. Which I'm not sure he will ever get to see a new head coach at this point.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I don't even think the 2 weeks will be enough. I honestly can't recall the last time a midseason trade for a WR immediately paid dividends.

Seems like it almost always takes WRs a full offseason to really get going with their new team.

So I'm not expecting much from Cooper this season. IMO, this trade is more about 2019 than 2018.

Yeah I just can't see how this is going to pay off this season at all. The only reason to make the move is because Amari is still young and at 24 years old he still has many years ahead of him. But if you're giving up a premium for a player why not do it in the offseason? Doing it in the middle of the season just reeks of panic.

 

[Landry]

All I can say is:

 

[Rev]

Aside from Tua I have no idea what's out there for 2020 QBs. Unless things go terribly wrong and we suffer a rash of injuries, I don't see us being in position to draft Tua without a trade up, which I'd definitely be open to.

Might as well wait for the next great Tech QB. Bowman in 21 or 22.

 

[Simpleton]

Yeah I still kind of like Drew Lock but he isn't a top 5 pick in my opinion. More of a guy that should go in the second round but might go in the first because of a lack of any type of talent at QB for the first round. He is a raw talent that could use a year or so sitting on the bench. He has really struggled against good SEC defenses but then he dominates weaker opponents. I like his arm and elusive ability though. Still it's looking like one more year with Dak which is ok. Dak has been getting better as this year has gone on. His numbers against the Skins just from a purely throwing perspective were pretty good. My hope is that a new coaching staff can get him reading defenses better and playing more aggressive. Which I'm not sure he will ever get to see a new head coach at this point.

This was Dak's best game on the road by far, and aside from the horrendous fumble it may have been one of his best overall games of the season, after Jacksonville/Detroit.

At the end of the day the best move is this, fire Garrett, clear out the coaching staff (if Jerry wants to keep most of the defensive staff I'd be ok with it but it'd certainly be a half-assed way of doing things) and bring in an offensive mind with fresh concepts either as HC or OC, and get Dak an experienced QB coach.

Then you can at least make a final decision on him after 2019 when he isn't hamstrung by Garrett/shit face Kellen Moore.

Dak has clear and obvious flaws but at least give the guy a chance with a QB coach who wasn't his backup a year ago.

 

[Smitty]

I think you're being deceived by a few plays a game. Guys aren't running wide open on a regular basis.

No scheme or talent runs open on a "regular basis." The best QBs separate themselves from the average QBs by making plays and throwing guys open, throwing into tight windows where only their guy can get it, or seeing the field better than the defense can react to everything.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

No scheme or talent runs open on a "regular basis." The best QBs separate themselves from the average QBs by making plays and throwing guys open, throwing into tight windows where only their guy can get it, or seeing the field better than the defense can react to everything.

No but you can't tell me Allen Hurns and crew are getting open more often than any other teams WR's.

You are right about the "best" QBs though. If you watch Aaron Rodgers for example he misses throws, he doesn't see guys who are wide open but in the end he makes some plays throwing the ball that are unbelievable. Some throws few if any other QBs can make. He sort of makes up for the misses with the unbelievable. The best plays Dak can make on his own are with his feet because he doesn't make up for things with his arm like that. If a guy is covered Dak isn't probably completing the ball there. Other QBs can see a guy covered and complete that pass.

 

[NoDak]

I would have rather had Earl Thomas who could have pushed this excellent defense into elite status if we just don't want our 1st rounders.

Not me. As much as I don't like giving up a first for Cooper, I would have hated it even more for Thomas. He's nearing the end of his prime years. And making this defense even better, we still weren't winning anything the way this offense was going.

At least Cooper is young with a lot of upside. In an area where our team is hurting the most right now. Our offense has been complete trash. Our defense, even without Earl Thomas has been pretty damn good.

Plus, add in the very good chance we could add Thomas next year as a FA, costing us no draft picks.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

This was Dak's best game on the road by far, and aside from the horrendous fumble it may have been one of his best overall games of the season, after Jacksonville/Detroit.

At the end of the day the best move is this, fire Garrett, clear out the coaching staff (if Jerry wants to keep most of the defensive staff I'd be ok with it but it'd certainly be a half-assed way of doing things) and bring in an offensive mind with fresh concepts either as HC or OC, and get Dak an experienced QB coach.

Then you can at least make a final decision on him after 2019 when he isn't hamstrung by Garrett/shit face Kellen Moore.

Dak has clear and obvious flaws but at least give the guy a chance with a QB coach who wasn't his backup a year ago.

Honestly had it not been for the stupid fumbles we would probably be talking about a win and how good Dak looked. But the fumbles are just as bad as INT's. Sometimes worse.

It also gulls me a little that at least 3 of our drives were killed by penalties on the O-line. There were two holding calls that took back big pass plays. And a third that a 15 yard clipping penalty on a screen. I just don't get why our O-line falls to pieces on the road. The only thing I can fathom is that there are problems with Martin making the O-line calls when the crowed is loud. I know Tyron looked confused on more than one occasion. First looking to block inside and then getting late to his guy on the outside. I wouldn't be surprised if he is having problems hearing Martin shouting out calls from further down the line.

 

[NoDak]

No but you can't tell me Allen Hurns and crew are getting open more often than any other teams WR's.

A little deceptive dishonesty leading off with Allen Hurns' name in your example. Why not use Gallup or Beasley? They are ahead of Hurns in the pecking order, after all. Could it be because they do in fact come open a lot more than Hurns does, and still don't see the ball?

 

[Cowboysrock55]

A little deceptive dishonesty leading off with Allen Hurns' name in your example. Why not use Gallup or Beasley? They are ahead of Hurns in the pecking order, after all. Could it be because they do in fact come open a lot more than Hurns does, and still don't see the ball?

Against the Skins Gallup was killing them. It's the best I have seen Gallup all year though. I don't know that we have seen that same separation for 7 games. Which is understandable for a third round rookie still getting his feet under him.

I led with Hurns because despite your claim he leads all of our receivers with snaps. So I don't think it's correct in saying Gallup is ahead of him in the pecking order except for the last two games when Gallup has finally gotten more snaps than him. Which coincidentally has been probably Daks two best throwing performances. Hurns still got more snaps than Beasley in both of those games though.