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2018 Cowboys Free Agency Thread

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Genghis Khan View Post
    Nah, of course not.

    But if you took 2014 Romo and put him on the 2018 Cowboys, or heck current Brees, Ryan, Roethlisberger, etc., you'd get a reasonable approximation of prime Dez back.

    The offense as a whole would look better, etc.
    Gotcha. My bad, I did read it wrong.
    2016 DCC LOTY Fantasy Football Champion

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Simpleton View Post
      I really wanted Swearinger last year and he only got about 3/10 I believe, if we can get Vaccaro, Boston, Reid, etc. for something like that I'd do it in a second.
      That's my thought as well

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Genghis Khan View Post
        Nah, of course not.

        But if you took 2014 Romo and put him on the 2018 Cowboys, or heck current Brees, Ryan, Roethlisberger, etc., you'd get a reasonable approximation of prime Dez back.

        The offense as a whole would look better, etc.
        So you think Dez is the same WR as he was in his prime? That's insanity

        If you don't think 2 straight years of injuries have taken their toll then I think you're being silly.

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        • #34
          Dez is better than his production the last three years. Is he Dez Prime, of course no. But hes damned good.

          The only question is will he take less money, maybe go to a more incentive-based deal?

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          • #35
            Originally posted by ravidubey View Post
            Dez is better than his production the last three years. Is he Dez Prime, of course no. But he’s damned good.

            The only question is will he take less money, maybe go to a more incentive-based deal?
            I could see Dez going to another team and totally falling off the face of the earth. I'd put money down that if we cut him and he signed somewhere else that he doesn't post 1000 yards next year.

            If you want to see another receiver who has taken a similar career trajectory look at Alshon Jeffery. And no, going from playing with a shit QB to playing with one of the best in the NFL hasn't suddenly made him elite again. And shit, Jeffrey is only 27 and hasn't gotten the monster contract that causes some players to get fat and lazy.

            Do I think Dez could have put up better numbers playing with Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady? Probably. But it's also possible that those QBs would have found him too unreliable and simply thrown less balls in Dez's direction. Dez simply does not beat good NFL corners anymore. And when he was 26 and in his prime he did beat upper level corners. So I'm not buying this idea that QBs are just holding him back. Dez is what he is, he is a redzone threat who just isn't that good between the 20's.

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            • #36
              I think Dez's numbers were flawed. I know they put a low percentage on his catches vs thrown to, but as many as he dropped last year, there were just as many if not more thrown his way that were uncatchable. Whatever Dak was doing the year before, he wasn't doing this year. And it wasn't just to Dez.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by fortsbest View Post
                I think Dez's numbers were flawed. I know they put a low percentage on his catches vs thrown to, but as many as he dropped last year, there were just as many if not more thrown his way that were uncatchable. Whatever Dak was doing the year before, he wasn't doing this year. And it wasn't just to Dez.
                Dez must lead the league in targets that are technically deemed catchable but youd have to have been bitten by a radioactive spider to actually catch them.

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                • #38
                  I still believe Dez's strength never was straight-out speed -- 4.52 40 in the combine. So tack on seven years and factor in the effects of age and nagging injuries, and figure by now he could be somewhere north of 4.6. That doesn't scare too many people as a deep threat. Teams used to double him as a common practice. Now they don't so much anymore.

                  His strengths were always how physical he is (was?): leaping ability, tenacity in going after the ball, muscling through press coverage, etc. He was also dangerous with YAC. But all those yards-after-catch may have taken a toll. He never went down easy.

                  Jerry lets sentiment and favorite-son thinking cloud his judgment get in the way of hard business decisions when it come to players like Dez -- and Witten, for that matter.

                  Dump those two guys overboard and use the money to keep Hitchens, Lawrence and Irving, et al.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by fortsbest View Post
                    I think Dez's numbers were flawed. I know they put a low percentage on his catches vs thrown to, but as many as he dropped last year, there were just as many if not more thrown his way that were uncatchable. Whatever Dak was doing the year before, he wasn't doing this year. And it wasn't just to Dez.
                    I think it's fair to say that neither one of them performed as well as they did the year before. But even with Dak's inconsistency this past season, Dez only caught 52% of the passes thrown to him in 2016 which is the exact same number as he posted in 2017. So it's not like Dak's poor play is the only reason that we're seeing this watered down version of Dez.

                    As I mentioned, I believe the bigger issue is they insist on primarily using him on those high risk, high reward pass plays. Those go-routes and jump ball routes are typically 50/50 at best. Certainly not what you'd consider an efficient passing play. So I acknowledge that the coaching staff isn't doing him any favors in that regard.

                    That being said, Dez has to get a lot better at getting open on the underneath routes. Far too often he's blanketed by some scrub CB on intermediate routes. Even the passes thrown to him on underneath routes seem to be 50/50 because he's having to fight and compete with CBs for simple 10 yard passes. All because he struggles to create separation. Whereas on the other side Terrance Williams somehow manages to catch over 70% of the passes thrown his way.

                    Please don't take this as me wanting Dez gone. I'm not to that point yet. I've said a few times that I believe if Dez were placed on another team with more creative coaches we'd see a better version of Dez. Which is why bringing in coaches with fresh ideas is so important. Unfortunately it feels like they are committed to this marriage of Garrett and his offense.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by deadrise View Post
                      I still believe Dez's strength never was straight-out speed -- 4.52 40 in the combine. So tack on seven years and factor in the effects of age and nagging injuries, and figure by now he could be somewhere north of 4.6. That doesn't scare too many people as a deep threat. Teams used to double him as a common practice. Now they don't so much anymore.

                      His strengths were always how physical he is (was?): leaping ability, tenacity in going after the ball, muscling through press coverage, etc. He was also dangerous with YAC. But all those yards-after-catch may have taken a toll. He never went down easy.

                      Jerry lets sentiment and favorite-son thinking cloud his judgment get in the way of hard business decisions when it come to players like Dez -- and Witten, for that matter.

                      Dump those two guys overboard and use the money to keep Hitchens, Lawrence and Irving, et al.
                      I wouldn't dump him. He just needs to get better at understanding route concepts and coverages. There are plenty of older, slower WRs in the NFL who are performing well mainly because they work at mastering the skills of their trade. Larry Fitzgerald for instance. He's in his mid-thirties and still putting up Pro Bowl numbers.

                      How?

                      Because he does his homework on his opponents and tirelessly works on the minute details of the WR position.

                      Dez has always struck me as the guy who does "just enough". Obviously I don't know this for a fact, but I've always thought of him as one of those players who skates by on athleticism and who glosses over the intricate details of the WR position.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by 1bigfan13 View Post
                        I wouldn't dump him. He just needs to get better at understanding route concepts and coverages. There are plenty of older, slower WRs in the NFL who are performing well mainly because they work at mastering the skills of their trade. Larry Fitzgerald for instance. He's in his mid-thirties and still putting up Pro Bowl numbers.

                        How?

                        Because he does his homework on his opponents and tirelessly works on the minute details of the WR position.

                        Dez has always struck me as the guy who does "just enough". Obviously I don't know this for a fact, but I've always thought of him as one of those players who skates by on athleticism and who glosses over the intricate details of the WR position.

                        All good points. And a 40 time at the combine doesn't mean much all by itself. Jerry Rice's was 4.71. So that makes you wonder if Fitzgerald had that kind of work ethic from the beginning. We know Rice did.

                        I don't know enough about Bryant's work ethic or practice habits to comment intelligently. But it does seem he relied a lot on his athleticism and the attitude of "just throw me the ball and I'll come down with it." That worked often enough a couple years ago. But now? And can he change into a technician like Fitzgerald and Rice?

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by 1bigfan13 View Post
                          Please don't take this as me wanting Dez gone. I'm not to that point yet. I've said a few times that I believe if Dez were placed on another team with more creative coaches we'd see a better version of Dez. Which is why bringing in coaches with fresh ideas is so important. Unfortunately it feels like they are committed to this marriage of Garrett and his offense.
                          I'm where you are. I think Dez still has usefulness in this league. He still abuses shitty corners on jump balls. My hope is that a new WR coach will at least help him a little. I think Dooley was too buddy buddy with the receivers and I don't think he had any ability to instill some discipline in Dez. I also think it would help if Dez could put in some serious work with Dak. Like you mentioned Dak seems to have a great connection with some guys like Terrance Williams. And I think he still does with Beasley when Beasley is able to actually get open. Him and Dez though just don't seem to be on the same page.

                          My only problem with Dez is that unless him and Dak are able to establish a better connection we are better off with another Terrance Williams type (Hopefully with better hands) and that Dez is just being paid way too much money. I think Dak operate better without a true number 1 WR. So why pay Dez like a true number 1 if our offense operates best with him being more of an option among many more like Terrance Williams.

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                          • #43
                            C'mon, we all know Dez is way too fucking stupid to master the position.

                            Once the athleticism is gone, he's done. And it's going.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by 1bigfan13 View Post
                              I wouldn't dump him. He just needs to get better at understanding route concepts and coverages. There are plenty of older, slower WRs in the NFL who are performing well mainly because they work at mastering the skills of their trade. Larry Fitzgerald for instance. He's in his mid-thirties and still putting up Pro Bowl numbers.

                              How?

                              Because he does his homework on his opponents and tirelessly works on the minute details of the WR position.

                              Dez has always struck me as the guy who does "just enough". Obviously I don't know this for a fact, but I've always thought of him as one of those players who skates by on athleticism and who glosses over the intricate details of the WR position.
                              This right here is exactly why he can't create separation. He is a terrible route runner, which may be partly why he is given so many go routes to run. They are simple and don't require an intricate route runner to run them properly.
                              2016 DCC LOTY Fantasy Football Champion

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by 1bigfan13 View Post
                                As I mentioned, I believe the bigger issue is they insist on primarily using him on those high risk, high reward pass plays.

                                Exactly right.

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