2018 Cowboys Draft Chatter Thread...

[Cotton]

I can see Irving, Vea, Taco and Lawrence being so dominant we could be reminded of Doomsday. And it would make the young DBs sooooo much better.

And, the LBers.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I can see Irving, Vea, Taco and Lawrence being so dominant we could be reminded of Doomsday. And it would make the young DBs sooooo much better.

Yeah I love that D-line. Not enough to trade up for Vea but I certainly think it would be bad ass if he fell to 19.

 

[ravidubey]

The Ravens defense was never built around Ngata.

It was rebuilt around him and he was the driving force behind their late 2000’s resurgence.

Same for Casey Hampton.

It's why neither defense has panicked to replace either guy. It's why Ngata is bouncing around the league. Just like Poe and every other highly drafted NT in recent history.

There you go misrepresentation again. Ngata’s bouncing around the league because he’s 34 years old. Hampton played 13 years in Pittsburgh before leaving.

The Steelers last played in the Superbowl with Hampton playing his third.

Chiefs went from 9th to 28th in defense when they lost Poe. Then they end up trading their big time CB anyways. They look like idiots.

You don’t lose players like that and not feel the impact.

Teams feel pressure to retain their pass rushers so much they forget what makes the rest of the defense work.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Teams feel pressure to retain their pass rushers so much they forget what makes the rest of the defense work.

They feel that pressure because they are more important and harder to find.

Also I love how you claim I misrepresented something and then talk about Ngata being 34. The dude left the Ravens 3 going 4 seasons ago. He was 31 years old when he left. And the elite Ravens defense were built around Suggs and Reed.

You take it too far with your size stuff. A stud NT would be great but it's not the most important piece. It's certainly not worth trading multiple picks for. Lotulelei gone. Danny Shelton traded. Poe gone. Shit even Snacks Harrison was allowed to leave the Jets. Happens all the time, because NTs aren't franchise players.

 

[Couchcoach]

Read an interesting article a couple of weeks ago. Not sure, but I think it was Blogging the Boys.
Regarding Vea, the writer was talking about how teams get excited about DT's until draft day. And when it comes time to take that first round pick to the podium they just can't bring themselves to use it on a DT. I can see the point here but it can be a foolish move.
Hoping that's the case with Vea, and we take advantage of the opportunity.

 

[ravidubey]

Shit even Snacks Harrison was allowed to leave the Jets. Happens all the time, because NTs aren't franchise players.

Yet the defenses they join immediately become elite or at least loads better.

I know Harrison is why the reason the Giants went from being a joke in 2015 to stingy bastids in 2016. All it takes is one guy.

Losing Poe dropped KC 16 spots from 9th to 25th in defense.

Shelton was traded because Cleveland is and has been the dumbest organization maybe in all of sports for some time now.

And the smartest team grabbed him, you know the one that never has a great pass rusher but’s always in the Superbowl.

The fallacy is that pass rushers by themselves make a defense great.

Hell our own team has had *fantastic* pass rushers yet perennially borderline sucks on defense. Look at last year!

We’ve fielded average defenses for decades, and this is the only piece that’s been missing that whole time!

 

[p1_]

I think Vea is gone by pick 19.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Yet the defenses they join immediately become elite or at least loads better.

I know Harrison is why the reason the Giants went from being a joke in 2015 to stingy bastids in 2016. All it takes is one guy.

Losing Poe dropped KC 16 spots from 9th to 25th in defense.

You know Kansas City's rush defense got better once Poe left? I mean not much different (Went from 4.4 ypc against to 4.3) but your concept that it had some massive impact on them seems a bit far fetched.

But you're missing the point. I agree with you that a NT can have an impact on a defense. It's just not what a defense is built around. Look at all the top defenses from last year? How many of them sport a top draft pick on their NT? Linval Joseph was a second round pick, and he is on his second team. Abry Jones was an undrafted free agent. Domata Peko was a fourth round pick and is on his second team. Tim Jernigan was a second round pick and is on his second team. Javon Hargrave was a third round pick who started as a rookie.

So those are the NT's from the top 5 defenses last year. Dallas's defense ranked 8th last year and we had Collins a third round pick start multiple games there (He was a 16 game starter last year). So the point remains, you don't build a defense around a NT. No one is out there using an elite pick on a NT and then building from there. I'm all for Vea. But trading away premium resources to move up to draft him is pure foolishness.

 

[deadrise]

Well yeah, that’s why I’m willing to trade up and get him. We have extra picks.

He creates an imbalance you don’t see against most 4-3 fronts— you can build a defense around this guy for the better part of a decade.

Damn well worth a 3rd and maybe more.

I love it when people throw around phrases like the "better part of a decade" or the "next 10 years." I recall when Tyron Smith was drafted everyone said we would be "set at left tackle for the next 10 years."

Nothing is set for anything close to 10 years in today's NFL. Salary caps, free agency, injuries -- four or five years is more like the most optimistic horizon for any hot shit draft pick.

 

[ravidubey]

I love it when people throw around phrases like the "better part of a decade" or the "next 10 years." I recall when Tyron Smith was drafted everyone said we would be "set at left tackle for the next 10 years."

Nothing is set for anything close to 10 years in today's NFL. Salary caps, free agency, injuries -- four or five years is more like the most optimistic horizon for any hot shit draft pick.

I whole-heartedly agree, which is why I said better part of a decade. Ngata was a Raven for 9 seasons and Hampton a Steeler his entire 12 year career. I have no illusions, but also consider this iwill be Tyron’s 8th season, which is damned “close” to a decade.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I whole-heartedly agree, which is why I said better part of a decade. Ngata was a Raven for 9 seasons and Hampton a Steeler his entire 12 year career. I have no illusions, but also consider this iwill be Tyron’s 8th season, which is damned “close” to a decade.

Tyron will be here a decade. I think Frederick will be too.

 

[ravidubey]

Dallas's defense ranked 8th last year and we had Collins a third round pick start multiple games there (He was a 16 game starter last year). So the point remains, you don't build a defense around a NT. No one is out there using an elite pick on a NT and then building from there. I'm all for Vea. But trading away premium resources to move up to draft him is pure foolishness.

Dallas has been top ten in both points and yards a pitiful three times since 1998, and two of those seasons were based on schemed fronts against an easy schedules. Despite our very solid pass rush in 2017, Dallas was awful on third down last year completely failing the situational defense test.

The hammer pass rushers don’t do a thing without the interior anvils. You can say a stubby-armed lesser DT in the 3rd or 4th will be that player for us, but he’ll never be the penetrator Vea is. That kind of pressure pays major dividends.

I’d rather have one outstanding player at a position we’ve needed in forever than a good one plus a depth guy. We have four extra picks, for God’s sakes.

If a guy is a top ten talent undervalued by a few slots down to 13 or so, you’ve picked up huge daft value by trading only a third and change to get him.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Dallas has been top ten in both points and yards a pitiful three times since 1998, and two of those seasons were based on schemed fronts against an easy schedules. Despite our very solid pass rush in 2017, Dallas was awful on third down last year completely failing the situational defense test.

The hammer pass rushers don’t do a thing without the interior anvils. You can say a stubby-armed lesser DT in the 3rd or 4th will be that player for us, but he’ll never be the penetrator Vea is. That kind of pressure pays major dividends.

I’d rather have one outstanding player at a position we’ve needed in forever than a good one plus a depth guy. We have four extra picks, for God’s sakes.

If a guy is a top ten talent undervalued by a few slots down to 13 or so, you’ve picked up huge daft value by trading only a third and change to get him.

Vea penetrated his way to 3.5 sacks last year. Let's get real about this. Against the pass the guy isn't getting that much penetration. He is hanging out at the line just like most NT's in this draft will.

The hope is that Vea will hold that line better against the run than the other NT's when facing a double team. Which is where Vea could be dominant for us. And that's why I'm all for drafting him. But against the pass, he's meh.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

By the way my list of DT's that I'd love in this draft...

Vea
Senat
Tim Settle
Harrison Phillips
Nathan Shepherd
Derrick Nnadi
BJ Hill
Poona Ford
PJ Hall

Give me one of these guys and I'd be thrilled.

 

[Angrymesscan]

By the way my list of DT's that I'd love in this draft...

Vea
Senat
Tim Settle
Harrison Phillips
Nathan Shepherd
Derrick Nnadi
BJ Hill
Poona Ford
PJ Hall

Give me one of these guys and I'd be thrilled.

In what round?

 

[Cowboysrock55]

In what round?

Now that is harder.

Vea round one for sure.
Harrison Phillips and Nathan Shepperd round two.
Settle and BJ Hill probably third round.
Nnadi, Ford and Hall probably fourth. And if any of them are available in the fifth I'd be jumping up and down turning in the card. That's how I see it.


Some DT's I left off because I'm not that high on them or I'm not ok with where I think they will go are Payne, Bryan, Hurst and some of those guys.

 

[ravidubey]

Vea penetrated his way to 3.5 sacks last year. Let's get real about this. Against the pass the guy isn't getting that much penetration. He is hanging out at the line just like most NT's in this draft will.

The hope is that Vea will hold that line better against the run than the other NT's when facing a double team. Which is where Vea could be dominant for us. And that's why I'm all for drafting him. But against the pass, he's meh.

NT penetration is not about sacks but the pressure it applies on the QB and running game. He won’t give ground very often for sure and every foot of penetration is huge as it moves the rest of the defense up.

You can build around that unique skill all day every year. Players to each side and behind are made better.

 

[Nad]

Tomorrow ..................Dez day....................(Insert Jeopardy theme song here)......................

 

[lostxn]

Fuck it, it's gonna be LVE. The more I think about it, he's gonna be the pick. LB is our biggest need. LVE is a fantastic prospect. Great production and SPARQ. Only one year of starting but highly productive. Will only get better. Not much wear and tear. If I think about difference makers we can get at 19, he's probably going to make the most impact. Hernandez is the only other one I can think of who will really upgrade what we are as a team. I just think we can make do at OL more than we can at LB.

https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2018/4/12/17218538/finding-the-superior-athlete-sparq-linebackers-in-the-2018-nfl-draft

Another way to look at it is, he's the most special athlete who's going to be available to us. 6'4" 256 4.6 speed 140 tackles last year. I'm sold.

 

[p1_]

Tyron will be here a decade. I think Frederick will be too.

and Martin.