Sturm: Breaking down the “Zeke decision,” which will determine Cowboys’ direction for years to come

Smitty

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Schmitty mentions Dak's last 9 games for some reason, why not compare just those 9 games? Or the last eleven they played since that's what Wentz was able to play? Why 2 "seasons"?
I agree Wentz is the better passer, but I'm not sure he's the better QB. Kinda like Marino vs. Montana.
And there is one area where Dak is clearly superior, post-season stats. I was surprised to see Wentz hasn't thrown a single pass in post-season.
Cause selecting only Prescott’s last 9 games, when he played well almost exclusively, is waaaaaay more arbitrary, and certain more biased, than looking at their entire last season or last two seasons.

But I’ve already said, there is reason for optimism based on those 9 games. If you want to say you are gonna take Prescott on the hope he will replicate those 9 games, fine. But those last 9 games still only put him roughly on par with a Wentz statistically.

And its still a minority opinion held only by Cowboys fans, which is how you know it’s not credible and is homer-only biased analysis.

But speaking among Cowboys fans as we are, I’d call it fair if you tell me you want to put your chips on Prescott due to that hope.

Just be honest with me and yourself though. Wentz is better across the board as of this moment based on every available stat, other than durability.

We have optimism that Prescott will pass him? He could.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Just be honest with me and yourself though. Wentz is better across the board as of this moment based on every available stat I cherry pick, other than durability.

We have optimism that Prescott will pass him? He could.
ffy
 

L.T. Fan

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Elliot didn’t show at TC. If jones caves in for his demands he will never see the end of player discontent on his team.
 

Rev

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Skits were so DCC 2.
 

Smitty

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I have no remaining argument so I’m just gonna troll by making the ridiculous argument that last seasons stats or last two seasons stats is “arbitrary” but picking the last 9 games when Prescott did great isn’t “arbitrary.”
ffy
 

Cowboysrock55

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Why is 9 any more arbitrary than your choice? They are both arbitrary but that's the point I'm making. I was just pointing out that if your thoight process is that 3 years is too long ago. Than why isn't everything pre Cooper too old?
 

Smitty

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Why is 9 any more arbitrary than your choice? They are both arbitrary but that's the point I'm making. I was just pointing out that if your thoight process is that 3 years is too long ago. Than why isn't everything pre Cooper too old?
Is that a serious question? Why is the best 9 game stretch of Prescott’s career more arbitrary than taking the most recent full season?

Cause full seasons are how these things are measured, generally.

Measuring just Prescott’s last 9 games is a little unfair. If we take out the worst 40% of Wentz’s games, his numbers rise too.

However, I have stated many times that I do find it very merited to say that you have hope and faith in Prescott replicating those numbers across a full season. And I have no problem with him getting “bonus points,” on that assumption.

But even with that filter in place, his numbers look roughly equal to Wentz’s.... similar rating, similar ypg. I don’t have them right in front of me right now.

But that’s not a fair comparison. Take out Wentz’s 3-4 worst games and all of a sudden Prescott is trailing again.

QBs, and all players and team, are judged generally by the body of work the register over a full season because that’s what they are doing in the 4-5 month period of competition called a season between the 7-8 month break called the offseason. That’s not arbitrary or cherry picking; it’s STANDARDIZED for a reason.

If you are banking on Prescott replicating his post-Cooper stats, then let’s see it. I’ve already said, put up those numbers for a whole season and he does jump into the top 10 for me, very close to Wentz.

But citing rookie numbers as to why they are close as passers right now is just asinine.

Again, look at the box scores I cited. Time and time again in the last 2 years, Prescott loses games putting up ratings in the 50’s, 60’s, low 80’s. He did it 5 times in 2018.

Wentz did it once.

I mean, it’s every angle, Wentz’s numbers are superior. Even cherry picking the final 9 games of Prescott’s 2018 only brings the numbers close, and yes, THAT is cherry picking.

Do it for a whole whole season and I’ll agree there is little between them. Until then, Prescott is the guy who bombed practically every other week in 2017, and then did so again in 2018, putting up half a season of LITERAL Quincy Carter numbers, until getting hot down the stretch. Wentz doesn’t have a stretch like that, at least not since being a rookie, which gets an asterisk if he did). Let alone a stretch like that across two seasons.

Prove it. Play like those last 9 games all year. If he does, he’ll be right there with Wentz and Wilson, ahead of Stafford, Cousins, Newton, etc.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Prove it. Play like those last 9 games all year. If he does, he’ll be right there with Wentz and Wilson, ahead of Stafford, Cousins, Newton, etc.
9 games isn't a big enough sample size. Need something bigger! 3 seasons is too big, it includes games too long ago.

So lets pick 2 years, why exactly? Oh because it fits the argument. You know what you're doing no matter how hard you try to justify it. In the end all I care about is that Dak beat Wentz twice last year.
 

Smitty

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9 games isn't a big enough sample size. Need something bigger! 3 seasons is too big, it includes games too long ago.

So lets pick 2 years, why exactly? Oh because it fits the argument. You know what you're doing no matter how hard you try to justify it. In the end all I care about is that Dak beat Wentz twice last year.
You apparently only hear what you want to hear. I already answered those questions.
 

Smitty

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Yes, the most recent season is a better indicator of who is better than the most recent 9 games where one of the players got hotter than the other player.

I can’t believe this is an actual debate; but that’s homerism for you. Anything to make their guy look better.

Meanwhile, check the national writer’s rankings. Hmmm. Wentz at 8, Prescott at 17.

Nope. The Cowboys fans have it right. Prescott is just as good. Yeah, everyone else on the planet would make fun of us for being completely deluded, but as long as we are here in this safe space echo chamber, we can say things like:

“Why is the last season or the last two seasons more relevant than Prescott’s last nine games? You, not me, are being arbitrary. Oh, and now to make it look even better, let’s add in rookie stats, because we all know rookie performance is a legit indicator of what a player ends up as, way more than the second or third year.”
 

Rev

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Nothing but fools gold.


Give me the winner every time.
 

ravidubey

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Elliot didn’t show at TC. If jones caves in for his demands he will never see the end of player discontent on his team.
Each case is different. Elliot’s never had more leverage, and with the beating he takes as a RB he needs every bit of it. You saw what Dallas did to Murray and they stand to treat Zeke the same way. From Zeke’s perspective he must pull an Emmit and hold out.

Dak hasn’t proven he can win without Elliot. If they struggle vs NY without Elliot and Saquon tears them up it will be even worse. Follow that with a division loss vs Washington as they win playing pass all day and you risk the whole season over a pissing contest.

This team is not the same without Zeke.
 

L.T. Fan

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Each case is different. Elliot’s never had more leverage, and with the beating he takes as a RB he needs every bit of it. You saw what Dallas did to Murray and they stand to treat Zeke the same way. From Zeke’s perspective he must pull an Emmit and hold out.

Dak hasn’t proven he can win without Elliot. If they struggle vs NY without Elliot and Saquon tears them up it will be even worse. Follow that with a division loss vs Washington as they win playing pass all day and you risk the whole season over a pissing contest.

This team is not the same without Zeke.
The team won’t be the same if jones gives in to him. Player discontent and pseudo injured players will be on the rise.
 

L.T. Fan

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This thread is pretty interesting don’t you think. Who said stats don’t mean anything. Here on this topic they are everything.

:happydance :mj :rock
 

deadrise

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Zeke would be less crucial to Dallas if they had a head coach who was adaptable, fast on his feet, innovative, and forward thinking. None of that describes Garrett.

Zeke would be less crucial to Dallas if they had a seasoned, proven, top-10 QB. None of that, as yet, describes Dak.

Whatever success Dak has had to date is directly attributable to Zeke.
 
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Smitty

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By the way, what has Dak won? I agree he has “IT but I don’t know that he’s clear cut a “winner.” Wentz at least put his team in a position to win a Super Bowl. Prescott hasn’t clear cut done better than that.
 

Cotton

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By the way, what has Dak won? I agree he has “IT but I don’t know that he’s clear cut a “winner.” Wentz at least put his team in a position to win a Super Bowl. Prescott hasn’t clear cut done better than that.
Dak Prescott is 32-16 as a starter.

Carson Wentz is 23-17 as a starter.

That's pretty clear cut.
 

Cowboysrock55

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By the way, what has Dak won? I agree he has “IT but I don’t know that he’s clear cut a “winner.” Wentz at least put his team in a position to win a Super Bowl. Prescott hasn’t clear cut done better than that.
Wentz has never even participated in a playoff game...
 
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