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Sturm: Breaking down the “Zeke decision,” which will determine Cowboys’ direction for years to come

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Cowboysrock55 View Post

    Wentz has never been a Superbowl MVP. The statement was about Wentz.
    Okay. But it’s the same team that Wentz has so Foles also gained from them. But again the good producing QBs have a good OL in front of them and this allows theQB to display his wares.
    Since Day One

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    • #47
      Originally posted by mschmidt64 View Post

      Football is a team sport.
      Absolutely is.
      Since Day One

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      • #48
        Originally posted by mschmidt64 View Post

        Football is a team sport.
        And QB is the biggest reason why teams win or lose games. Last season was far from this far superior season that you make the claim of.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by L.T. Fan View Post

          Okay. But it’s the same team that Wentz has so Foles also gained from them. But again the good producing QBs have a good OL in front of them and this allows theQB to display his wares.
          Yeah the point is that taking a QB from the Eagles and plugging them in a less ideal situation in Dallas won't necessarily produce the same results.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by L.T. Fan View Post

            Foles has gotten teams to the playoffs in the past couple of years and has fared pretty darn good. I don’t think Dak could match his performance and Wentz hasn’t been able to play so who what he would do. Give Foles a reasonable time and his vertical game is among the leaders in the NFL. This is overthe span of the last two years.
            Almost written off for playoff elimination, Foles steps in and beats playoff contenders Rams and Texans to make the playoffs, wins a road playoff game, and is a bobbled ball from winning another road playoff game enroute to two straight NFC Championship games.

            I'd say he's better than Romo, and, ergo, better than any QB that's ever played for the Dallas Cowboys.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by mschmidt64 View Post
              But projecting him out, you'd certainly have to conclude that a best case, absolute best case scenario for Prescott is probably Russell Wilson. Which is a top 10 QB, but not a top 5 QB.
              Who's your Top 5 that is definitively better than Russell Wilson?

              I can see Rodgers, Brees, Brady for sure...but I could see arguments for/against Mahomes (has only done it one year), Rivers (too old, playoff performance), Goff (surrounding team talent and only one year), Luck, Roethlisberger, but I wouldn't necessarily disagree with someone saying Russell Wilson is Top 5.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by pdom View Post

                Who's your Top 5 that is definitively better than Russell Wilson?

                I can see Rodgers, Brees, Brady for sure...but I could see arguments for/against Mahomes (has only done it one year), Rivers (too old, playoff performance), Goff (surrounding team talent and only one year), Luck, Roethlisberger, but I wouldn't necessarily disagree with someone saying Russell Wilson is Top 5.
                Wilson is definitely in the top 5 range. If not in it he is on the border for sure.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by mschmidt64 View Post

                  There is not a single rational analysis that would conclude otherwise.
                  You're clearly a Bison homer.

                  ~drool~

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Cowboysrock55 View Post

                    And QB is the biggest reason why teams win or lose games. Last season was far from this far superior season that you make the claim of.
                    Sure, QB is definitely the biggest. That's why it makes sense to part with even very important assets in an effort to upgrade the QB position.

                    But you can look at the individual performances and see that Dak was not very good a lot of weeks, but conversely, see Wentz was pretty good most weeks and his team lost the game elsewhere.

                    Dak:
                    - 81 rating in a week 1 loss at Carolina.
                    - 54 rating in a week 3 loss at Seattle.
                    - 66 rating in a week 5 loss to Houston.
                    - 64 rating in a week 14 loss to Indy.
                    - 96 rating in a week 7 loss to Washington, but only 1 TD pass.

                    Wentz:
                    - 99 rating in a week 4 loss to Tennessee (no INTs)
                    - 115 rating in a week 5 loss to Minnesota (no INTs)
                    - 119 rating in a week 7 loss to Carolina (no INTs)
                    - 102 rating in a week 9 loss to Dallas (1 INT)
                    - 120 rating in a week 13 loss to Dallas (no INTs)

                    You tell me who is losing these games for each team..... Oh, right, I forgot, everything is Jason Garrett's fault.

                    Dak does have a certain "it" factor, and that counts for something, but until he can prove that he can be the prime mover of a top rated offense, he will never be in Wentz's category, or anyone above Wentz either.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Cowboysrock55 View Post

                      Yeah the point is that taking a QB from the Eagles and plugging them in a less ideal situation in Dallas won't necessarily produce the same results.
                      The same? No. But where we lack a little in receiving threats, we make up for it in run game proficiency.

                      It would be a clear cut upgrade for us to swap Prescott for Wentz.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by mschmidt64 View Post

                        But you can look at the individual performances and see that Dak was not very good a lot of weeks, but conversely, see Wentz was pretty good most weeks and his team lost the game elsewhere.

                        Dak:
                        - 81 rating in a week 1 loss at Carolina.
                        - 54 rating in a week 3 loss at Seattle.
                        - 66 rating in a week 5 loss to Houston.
                        - 64 rating in a week 14 loss to Indy.
                        - 96 rating in a week 7 loss to Washington, but only 1 TD pass.

                        Wentz:
                        - 99 rating in a week 4 loss to Tennessee (no INTs)
                        - 115 rating in a week 5 loss to Minnesota (no INTs)
                        - 119 rating in a week 7 loss to Carolina (no INTs)
                        - 102 rating in a week 9 loss to Dallas (1 INT)
                        - 120 rating in a week 13 loss to Dallas (no INTs)

                        You tell me who is losing these games for each team..... Oh, right, I forgot, everything is Jason Garrett's fault.

                        Dak does have a certain "it" factor, and that counts for something, but until he can prove that he can be the prime mover of a top rated offense, he will never be in Wentz's category, or anyone above Wentz either.
                        GO BISON!!

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by pdom View Post

                          Who's your Top 5 that is definitively better than Russell Wilson?

                          I can see Rodgers, Brees, Brady for sure...but I could see arguments for/against Mahomes (has only done it one year), Rivers (too old, playoff performance), Goff (surrounding team talent and only one year), Luck, Roethlisberger, but I wouldn't necessarily disagree with someone saying Russell Wilson is Top 5.
                          Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Mahomes, Goff, Luck, all ahead. Rivers and Roethlisberger, Wentz, they are all in that next group. Wilson is on the cusp of that next tier. Yes, he had a fantastic, fantastic, MVP type season last year, but his ypg was only 215. His usage was way down; he was not asked to do the heavy lifting and it raised his efficiency, in part.

                          That's where I'd like to see Prescott be (though more like 250 ypg, not 215. That's just hardly ever enough for winning football in today's NFL). I think it's not impossible, and that would be fantastic for us. But he's not there yet. He has to eliminate all those sub-90 rating passing performances. Everyone is entitled to a clunker or two a year.... Prescott has like 6, along with a couple where he's ok efficiently, but also doesn't really drive the offense either. Has to change.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by mschmidt64 View Post

                            The same? No. But where we lack a little in receiving threats, we make up for it in run game proficiency.

                            It would be a clear cut upgrade for us to swap Prescott for Wentz.
                            We also get trounced in offensive coaching. Don't forget that fact...

                            But no, it's not clear as you state it. Granted, I'm not here to hate on either QB, I think they both have the potential to be great in the NFL. They both have their strengths and their weaknesses. I'd just prefer the guy who stays healthy and wins games over the guy who plays 11 games in a season with marginally better stats. If it were all about stats Kirk Cousins and Matthew Stafford would be the shit.

                            And there is no denying that Dak has some seriously clutch ability. Clutch ability that those other guys lack.

                            And no I don't want to have a Wentz v. Dak debate. There is no clear cut winner as you like to claim. And it sounds like a week long argument of cherry picking stats to try and show one is better than the other. Not worth the time or effort. They are both more than capable of winning lots of games in the NFL.

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                            • #59
                              I will also point out, I keep ringing the bell that Prescott doesn't need to average 280-320 ypg passing like the true top QBs in this league are able to do (which they do because, as has been said, passing is the key to moving the ball on offense in today's league, therefore, you need to accumulate yards passing proficiently and efficiently).

                              But he cannot be at 2016's 229 ypg, or 2017's unarguably abysmal 207 ypg (again, Quincy/Kaepernick territory).

                              2018's 242 ypg was a huge rebound for him, but more importantly, coinciding with our 7-2 finish to the regular season, upon the arrival of Amari Cooper, Prescott passed for 274 ypg. Not surprisingly, once we got a passing attack that was actually in balance vis a vis our rushing attack and the rest of the league instead of a laughingstock at 200 ypg, we reeled off win after win after win.

                              If Prescott is capable of 274 ypg for a full season, plus if he can inch up his touchdowns per game during that stretch from 1.6 per game to 2 per game, and maybe cut back on his sacks, this team is going to win the division handily.

                              To relate it to the original debate, I have absolutely zero question that Wentz can pass for 270+ ypg at high efficiency and 2 TD per game in this very offense, stone age as it is.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by mschmidt64 View Post



                                Wentz:
                                - 99 rating in a week 4 loss to Tennessee (no INTs)
                                - 115 rating in a week 5 loss to Minnesota (no INTs)
                                - 119 rating in a week 7 loss to Carolina (no INTs)
                                - 102 rating in a week 9 loss to Dallas (1 INT)
                                - 120 rating in a week 13 loss to Dallas (no INTs)
                                You forgot Wentz's 31 QB rating week. I wonder why?

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