Cowboys Coaches Watch Thread...

deadrise

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Oh, I don't know, maybe a team who realizes that the window of opportunity is extremely short in the NFL and who understands that it's only a matter of time before they're going to start losing key players due to the massive contracts some of these guys on rookie deals are going to command.

Basically the smart teams/GMs who actually have a little foresight and sense of urgency. Two things lacking in Dallas.

This is very astute. The saying is that the coach thinks about the here and now, the GM is supposed to think two or three years ahead. This is a young, talented team. But three years from now, Zeke will be making a ton of money and Garrett will have worn the tread off his tires. T. Smith will be gone by then. LVE and J. Smith will be making a ton of money. So will Lawrence and Cooper. Who knows about Frederick?

If you look at how dominant Seattle was for a period but then time and money start to chip away. NE might be the exception but a) they play in such a shitty division they're almost guaranteed six wins a year and b) Belichek never lets grass grow under anyone's feet.

All Jerry wants to do is stay "relevant." Ten wins and two playoff games helps him do that. Next year, the networks will continue to carry Cowboys games in feature time slots, the ratings will be good. everyone will be happy -- except the fans.
 

Smitty

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You're just trolling at this point. Have to be. No way you actually believe any of this.
I think maybe you aren't understanding what I'm saying.

This team entered the year with no WRs, no TEs, and a massive question mark on the OL with Frederick out and a rookie LG. And certainly no one expected the defense to be as good as it was. This was never a team that everyone felt was gonna be 13-3 and run away with the division and get home field throughout. Even when we got that in 2016, it was a complete surprise. Going 12-4 in 2014 was a shock as well. It always felt like we were waiting for the other shoe to drop -- and it always did, in the playoffs.

I think 2007 was the last time we went into the year feeling like we should be legit contenders for a bye.

I'm saying that's just as much on Garrett. Either he can't mold these guys into a Greatest Show on Turf like we perceive the Rams, or, conversely, he isn't able to help acquire enough talent to get us to that level.
 

1bigfan13

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This is very astute. The saying is that the coach thinks about the here and now, the GM is supposed to think two or three years ahead. This is a young, talented team. But three years from now, Zeke will be making a ton of money and Garrett will have worn the tread off his tires. T. Smith will be gone by then. LVE and J. Smith will be making a ton of money. So will Lawrence and Cooper. Who knows about Frederick?

If you look at how dominant Seattle was for a period but then time and money start to chip away. NE might be the exception but a) they play in such a shitty division they're almost guaranteed six wins a year and b) Belichek never lets grass grow under anyone's feet.

All Jerry wants to do is stay "relevant." Ten wins and two playoff games helps him do that. Next year, the networks will continue to carry Cowboys games in feature time slots, the ratings will be good. everyone will be happy -- except the fans.
Sadly this is our fate.
 

Chocolate Lab

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I don't think Garrett underachieved with this group. He may have even overachieved. But then that brings up the point, how come this team never seems to be on par with the Rams or Saints of the world? We are always a team that feels undermanned by this time of the playoffs.
We were the Rams or Saints just two years ago.

Except for the part about actually winning that home playoff game.
 

1bigfan13

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I think maybe you aren't understanding what I'm saying.

This team entered the year with no WRs, no TEs, and a massive question mark on the OL with Frederick out and a rookie LG. And certainly no one expected the defense to be as good as it was. This was never a team that everyone felt was gonna be 13-3 and run away with the division and get home field throughout. Even when we got that in 2016, it was a complete surprise. Going 12-4 in 2014 was a shock as well. It always felt like we were waiting for the other shoe to drop -- and it always did, in the playoffs.

I think 2007 was the last time we went into the year feeling like we should be legit contenders for a bye.

I'm saying that's just as much on Garrett. Either he can't mold these guys into a Greatest Show on Turf like we perceive the Rams, or, conversely, he isn't able to help acquire enough talent to get us to that level.
I know it's difficult for you to acknowledge this but Garrett bears the brunt of the blame for the Cowboys shortcomings.

Were there question marks about this team coming into the season? Absolutely. But the same can be said for the other 31 NFL teams. Every team has it's warts. That's why having a bright coach is so important. Bright coaches know how to coach around those deficiencies and get the most out of their teams. Garrett on the other hand, struggles to do that on a consistent basis.

It shouldn't take a near perfect roster and elite coordinators just to get to a conf. championship. But that's what we need in Dallas with Garrett running things. Which begs the question, if conditions have to be near perfect just for this team to advance past round 2 of the playoffs, what's that say about Garrett's worth as a head coach?
 

Cotton

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Smitty

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I know it's difficult for you to acknowledge this but Garrett bears the brunt of the blame for the Cowboys shortcomings.
The post you just quoted me, I said, "I'm saying that's just as much on Garrett. Either he can't mold these guys into a Greatest Show on Turf like we perceive the Rams, or, conversely, he isn't able to help acquire enough talent to get us to that level."

I've been saying for days that it's a legit concern that this might indeed be as far as he can get us. Not that there is some sort of glass ceiling he literally cannot crack (it's conceivable with some good fortunate or lucky breaks or some other team having a bad day, you could advance further), but in general, a Dallas Cowboys team under Garrett may be usually about as good as a divisional round team.

Like I said, even our 13-3 year with rookie Prescott.... I mean, the guy passed for 230 ypg. We did not have a top offense or a top defense. That 13-3 wasn't a Rams or Chiefs 13-3 where they look unbeatable most weeks. It's not a shock that an elite QB took us out in the divisional round. We just weren't that good. We rode a wave and got as much out of it as we could, but it ended.

Same as this year. I give Garrett credit for taking a flawed roster about as far as I could see it going without having a coach like McVay or Reid on the cutting edge of things.

Were there question marks about this team coming into the season? Absolutely. But the same can be said for the other 31 NFL teams. Every team has it's warts. That's why having a bright coach is so important. Bright coaches know how to coach around those deficiencies and get the most out of their teams. Garrett on the other hand, struggles to do that on a consistent basis.
We were widely regarded as having the worst receiving corps in the league entering the year, along with a bottom half of the league QB. Not every team has warts to that level -- the Rams, Chiefs and Saints don't, for sure. It's just not accurate to look at our roster and say it's pound for pound on par with the Rams. They have an equal RB, a much better QB, better receiving corps, a better DL, and probably an equal secondary. I'm not sure our OL was better either with Frederick missing.

It shouldn't take a near perfect roster and elite coordinators just to get to a conf. championship. But that's what we need in Dallas with Garrett running things. Which begs the question, if conditions have to be near perfect just for this team to advance past round 2 of the playoffs, what's that say about Garrett's worth as a head coach?
It doesn't say what many imply, which is that he sucks or is a bottom tier coach. A lot of coaches are gonna max out at this level.

But I do agree that this may be the furthest that his approach can take us -- his try hard, focus on what's in front of you message has value, but it only takes you so far, when you either need players to be playing at elite levels, or you need to have serious innovation. I agree -- he doesn't offer the innovation, and he doesn't have the elite talent to line up and say "You can't stop us."

Like the Buccaneers under Dungy, sometimes a franchise isn't able to take the next step and you need a guy who is able to do that.
 

deadrise

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When a ship runs aground, the captain is ALWAYS to blame -- regardless. He could be in his cabin sleeping or doing paperwork and someone on the bridge makes a mistake. Doesn't matter. He's to blame. No excuses. No second chances. He's done.

Garrett has been the captain of the ship for 8 years, and in terms of wins and losses he's run the ship aground many times. Like 1bigfan says not having the perfect roster or elite coordinators are excuses. When a team fails to reach a certain level of success over a period of time the coach pays the price. The coach gets fired. No excuses. A handful of them get fired every year. Nobody cares if things weren't perfect.

I don't understand why Garrett has that immunity, that lack of accountability. Perennial mediocrity and next year we'll see that same old clapping asshole on the sideline, high-fiving players as they come off, for doing what they get paid to do.
 

Smitty

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It's not "perennial mediocrity." Maybe that's the problem. People seem to be intent on making analogies that don't apply at all.

We've made the divisional round 3 times the last 5 years, we won the division those three times. The other times, we were short a franchise QB or a franchise RB. That's not an "excuse," it's simple facts. It is extraordinarily rare to win a Super Bowl or even make the playoffs without a competent QB. Yes, the Eagles just did it. It's still rare. And we did not have a Nick Foles on our roster in 2015.

Stupid analogies about ship captains don't apply. You don't fire a guy to punish him for poor performance, you choose to continue employing him or not based on projections of future success. Three division championships in the last 5 years is why Garrett is here and why he will remain here for now.... he has shown that he is absolutely able to push the right buttons and get this team -- which has flaws that might cause other teams to miss the playoffs -- into the top third or even top quarter of the league's teams, results-wise. All this butt hurt whining about failure and accountability and three straight 8-8 seasons is stupid bitching from crybabies. Waah! He should have been fired after going 8-8 three timesI I don't understand! Waaah! Well, he wasn't. Get the fuck over it. If you can't understand why you'd keep a coach who has won the division three times in five years, while missing absolutely vital players the other years, then you are an idiot.

This is literally the only analysis that matters: We are trying to win a Super Bowl and Garrett has had us in the divisional round mix, which is RELATIVELY close; whereas starting over could mean blowing the whole thing and ending up at the bottom. I know you all scoff at this but you are wrong -- it's straight up moronic to do a blind firing and then a coaching search which produces Adam Gase or Vic Fangio or any of the other large amount of burnouts who completely suck, when we have IN HAND a system that produces divisional round results, with an easy tweak of replacing the OC likely to help as well.

If you are going to replace Garrett, and there is a legitimate argument for this, that he has reached the end of the road, then you need to have Lincoln Riley (or someone of that caliber) on the tarmac with a verbal commitment before giving Garrett the axe. That's the only thing that makes sense with this team where it is. This isn't a 5 win team that can't do any worse and you have nothing to lose; you DO have something to lose. You were just in a one score game with the NFCC on the line. One block or one tackle here or there and we are playing on Sunday.

Upgrades are out there. Fucking find them and get them to sign on the dotted line first, and this is a very easy decision. I mean, or we could just roll the dice and maybe have Hue Jackson. If not, Garrett rightfully stays.
 

Rev

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He has reached his ceiling and its not high enough. Let Cincinnati be content with division titles and divisional rounds. There is always somebody out there that can do better. You just have to be willimg to look and give a chance to someone that migjt be outside the box.
 

Smitty

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He has reached his ceiling and its not high enough. Let Cincinnati be content with division titles and divisional rounds. There is always somebody out there that can do better. You just have to be willimg to look and give a chance to someone that migjt be outside the box.
And like I said, an announcement tomorrow that the Cowboys were prying away Sean Payton from the Saints or they were hiring Lincoln Riley, and I'll be fine with it.

If they instead fire Garrett tomorrow and say, "Ok, now we're gonna start looking. Candidates include Todd Haley, Marvin Lewis, Dirk Koetter, and Mike McCoy..... no. Fucking hard pass. I'll keep Garrett and run the chance that he can somehow elevate them past the Divisional Round.
 

Rev

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And like I said, an announcement tomorrow that the Cowboys were prying away Sean Payton from the Saints or they were hiring Lincoln Riley, and I'll be fine with it.

If they instead fire Garrett tomorrow and say, "Ok, now we're gonna start looking. Candidates include Todd Haley, Marvin Lewis, Dirk Koetter, and Mike McCoy..... no. Fucking hard pass. I'll keep Garrett and run the chance that he can somehow elevate them past the Divisional Round.
Those names dont do anything for me either. I just cant help but think there is an uncovered gem out there somewhere. Maybe its just me dreaming but the NFL just runs the same names out there every year. Surely there is somebody out there. Just tired of wasting time with this coach and frankly this organization.
 

Smitty

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I'm sure there are uncovered gems out there. But then again, look at guys like Pete Carmichael and Dan Campbell. Why didn't they get a sniff? Why is Vic Fangio and Adam Gase being recycled? It's mind boggling. But at the same time, I can't just assume that Jerry has some special insight that is going to allow him to find the hidden gem. I have to believe we will be looking at John Fox, Marvin Lewis, Gary Kubiak, Jeff Fisher.

Our best possible hope would be that we fire Garrett and promote Richard. And even that is questionable.
 

Genghis Khan

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Richard would probably be the guy, but barring a power issue (ex. Garrett refuses to fire Linehan), Garrett won't be fired.
 

data

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It's not "perennial mediocrity." Maybe that's the problem. People seem to be intent on making analogies that don't apply at all.

We've made the divisional round 3 times the last 5 years, we won the division those three times. The other times, we were short a franchise QB or a franchise RB. That's not an "excuse," it's simple facts. It is extraordinarily rare to win a Super Bowl or even make the playoffs without a competent QB. Yes, the Eagles just did it. It's still rare. And we did not have a Nick Foles on our roster in 2015.

Stupid analogies about ship captains don't apply. You don't fire a guy to punish him for poor performance, you choose to continue employing him or not based on projections of future success. Three division championships in the last 5 years is why Garrett is here and why he will remain here for now.... he has shown that he is absolutely able to push the right buttons and get this team -- which has flaws that might cause other teams to miss the playoffs -- into the top third or even top quarter of the league's teams, results-wise. All this butt hurt whining about failure and accountability and three straight 8-8 seasons is stupid bitching from crybabies. Waah! He should have been fired after going 8-8 three timesI I don't understand! Waaah! Well, he wasn't. Get the fuck over it. If you can't understand why you'd keep a coach who has won the division three times in five years, while missing absolutely vital players the other years, then you are an idiot.

This is literally the only analysis that matters: We are trying to win a Super Bowl and Garrett has had us in the divisional round mix, which is RELATIVELY close; whereas starting over could mean blowing the whole thing and ending up at the bottom. I know you all scoff at this but you are wrong -- it's straight up moronic to do a blind firing and then a coaching search which produces Adam Gase or Vic Fangio or any of the other large amount of burnouts who completely suck, when we have IN HAND a system that produces divisional round results, with an easy tweak of replacing the OC likely to help as well.

If you are going to replace Garrett, and there is a legitimate argument for this, that he has reached the end of the road, then you need to have Lincoln Riley (or someone of that caliber) on the tarmac with a verbal commitment before giving Garrett the axe. That's the only thing that makes sense with this team where it is. This isn't a 5 win team that can't do any worse and you have nothing to lose; you DO have something to lose. You were just in a one score game with the NFCC on the line. One block or one tackle here or there and we are playing on Sunday.

Upgrades are out there. Fucking find them and get them to sign on the dotted line first, and this is a very easy decision. I mean, or we could just roll the dice and maybe have Hue Jackson. If not, Garrett rightfully stays.
Props. I said before that Garrett's 3-5 turnaround is impressive. My fear is that our refinement to reach the next level will be making Dak Prescott a better pocket passer.
 

data

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I'm sure there are uncovered gems out there. But then again, look at guys like Pete Carmichael and Dan Campbell. Why didn't they get a sniff? Why is Vic Fangio and Adam Gase being recycled? It's mind boggling. But at the same time, I can't just assume that Jerry has some special insight that is going to allow him to find the hidden gem. I have to believe we will be looking at John Fox, Marvin Lewis, Gary Kubiak, Jeff Fisher.

Our best possible hope would be that we fire Garrett and promote Richard. And even that is questionable.
As booze pointed out, it's tougher for an offensive HC to switch offensive philosophies. Jimmuh got rid of Shula after improving from 1-15 to 7-9 and that helped springboard us to the next level. With Richard as HC, maybe this is the only way to have that offensive needle-mover.
 

Rev

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I obviously missed something.
Hes talking about if we fired Garrett and who we would look to replace. Not necessarily that that was his preferred route to go.
 
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