Cowboys Coaches Watch Thread...

[Rev]

 

[Cotton]

Away from the cameras, Jason Garrett reiterated his stance that he does not anticipate significant changes on the coaching staff, but acknowledged there have not been any discussions with the coaches or the front office. He was asked if he has final authority on the staff and said, “Like with everything they’re all collaborative decisions. I do not own the team. Jerry Jones owns the team. Ultimately, he has final say over everything we do here. But I do believe our relationship is very collaborative. I have a tremendous amount of faith and trust in him and hopefully he has the same for me.”

Todd Archer, ESPN Staff Writer

 

[Plan9Misfit]

Away from the cameras, Jason Garrett reiterated his stance that he does not anticipate significant changes on the coaching staff, but acknowledged there have not been any discussions with the coaches or the front office. He was asked if he has final authority on the staff and said, “Like with everything they’re all collaborative decisions. I do not own the team. Jerry Jones owns the team. Ultimately, he has final say over everything we do here. But I do believe our relationship is very collaborative. I have a tremendous amount of faith and trust in him and hopefully he has the same for me.”

Todd Archer, ESPN Staff Writer

Code for, “I’m his puppet and hope that he won’t fire my patsy.”

 

[p1_]

 

[NoDak]

Whoops!

Looks like Howdy Doody had his mouth strings jerked tight.

 

[DLK150]

I really wish both the coaches and front office would STFU. Part of me thinks it's just a publicity stunt to keep some kind of media attention on Dallas now that they've slinked home with their tails between their legs again.

 

[1bigfan13]

Here's how a competent front office would evaluate Garrett's worth.

As it currently stands it looks like the only way that this team can possibly advance past the Divisional Round is if Garrett is given an all-star set of coordinators to prop him up. But as we all know, great coordinators don't stay coordinators for long. They'll usually ascend to HC positions fairly quickly. So even if Jerry Jones went out and found the Cowboys the best set of coordinators money could be, 1-2 years later we'd be right back in the same position where we're struggling to remain relevant with an average HC with average coaching skills.

Some coaches are clearly "the system". Meaning they provide solid results regardless of who their coordinators are. We see it with Reid, Belicheck, Tomlin, Saban, and Carroll most notably.

Garrett's clearly not that guy. He needs a strong staff to prop him up. And as I mentioned above, if they were to get rid of Linehan and somehow landed "the next Sean McVay" as the new OC, 2 years from now we're right back where we started from because that OC has likely been hired elsewhere.

So what's the point of playing this game of yo-yo? I'd fire Linehan and Garrett and do my best to find a coach who has potential to be "the system".

Last thing......think about this. Garrett's going on a decade here in Dallas. That's a lifetime by NFL coaching standards. Can anyone point to a coach from the "Garrett coaching tree"? All the other successful coaches who have been around as long as Garrett have had assistants depart for bigger and better jobs elsewhere. Unless I'm completely blanking on someone, I can't think of a single former assistant from Garrett's staff who was offered a better job elsewhere. For any other sane organization that would be a red flag.

 

[1bigfan13]

Not withstanding who the coaches are, what NFL team/GM wants to shake up a 10-6 regular season team and engages in 2 post season appearances. Again forget whether we are looking at the Dallas Coaches?

Oh, I don't know, maybe a team who realizes that the window of opportunity is extremely short in the NFL and who understands that it's only a matter of time before they're going to start losing key players due to the massive contracts some of these guys on rookie deals are going to command.

Basically the smart teams/GMs who actually have a little foresight and sense of urgency. Two things lacking in Dallas.

 

[data]

Let your imagination run wild with how this relevant this is for our Garrett situation.

If a coach hasn't gotten their team to an AFC/NFC Championship by their 5th year, it's almost 100% they never will. Below are the AFCC/NFCC coaches going back to 2005 -- that's 56 coaches.

- 34/56 times (60%) a coach led their team within 5 years (Year as coach listed below).
- An additional 20/56 times (36%) it was one of the above coaches (AFCC/NFCC within 5 years) that led the same team to more AFCC/NFCC after their 5th year (marked as 'yes' below).
- That's 96% total (54/56) that AFCC/NFCC has been coached by someone with upfront success.
-----------
- Only two times did it take the coach longer than their first 5 years to reach the AFCC/NFCC - Andy Reid (Chiefs) this year and Holmgren (Seahawks) in 2005. Holmgren took 7 years in Seattle, but did it in 4 years with the Packers. This is Andy Reid's 6th year with the Chiefs but did it in 3 years with the Eagles.

- Interesting how many one-and-done's are on this list (9 total) -- Norv Turner, Jim Caldwell, John Fox (twice), Chuck Pagano, Whisenhunt, Brad Childress, Mike Smith and Bruce Arians...(Excluded 4 more - Marrone, Pederson, Quinn and McVay still with current team and haven't hit their 5th year yet. Didn't count Kubiak since he's medical leave)

SEASON (AFC)	TEAM	TEAM	COACH	YEAR		COACH	YEAR
2005	Steelers	Broncos	Cowher	yes		Shanahan	yes
2006	Colts	Patriots	Dungy	yes		Belichick	yes
2007	Patriots	Chargers	Belichick	yes		NORV TURNER	1st
2008	Steelers	Ravens	TOMLIN	2nd		HARBAUGH	1st
2009	Colts	Jets	CALDWELL	1st		REX RYAN	1st
2010	Steelers	Jets	TOMLIN	4th		REX RYAN	2nd
2011	Patriots	Ravens	Belichick	yes		HARBAUGH	4th
2012	Ravens	Patriots	HARBAUGH	5th		Belichick	yes
2013	Broncos	Patriots	FOX	3rd		Belichick	yes
2014	Patriots	Colts	Belichick	yes		PAGANO	3rd
2015	Broncos	Patriots	KUBIAK	1st		Belichick	yes
2016	Patriots	Steelers	Belichick	yes		Tomlin	yes
2017	Patriots	Jaguars	Belichick	yes		MARRONE	1st
2018	Chiefs	Patriots	Reid	NOPE		Belichick	yes
SEASON (NFC)
2005	Seahawks	Panthers	Holmgren	NOPE		FOX	4th
2006	Bears	Saints	LOVIE S.	3rd		PAYTON	1st
2007	Giants	Packers	COUGHLIN	4th		McCARTHY	2nd
2008	Cardinals	Eagles	WHISENHUNT	2nd		Reid	yes
2009	Saints	Vikings	PAYTON	4th		CHILDRESS	4th
2010	Packers	Bears	MCCARTHY	5th		LOVIE S.	yes
2011	Giants	49ers	Coughlin	yes		HARBAUGH	1st
2012	49ers	Falcons	HARBAUGH	2nd		MIKE SMITH	5th
2013	Seahawks	49ers	CARROLL	4th		HARBAUGH	3rd
2014	Seahawks	Packers	CARROLL	5th		McCarthy	yes
2015	Panthers	Cardinals	RIVERA	5th		ARIANS	3rd
2016	Falcons	Packers	DAN QUINN	2nd		McCarthy	yes
2017	Eagles	Vikings	PEDERSON	2nd		ZIMMER	4th
2018	Saints	Rams	Payton	yes		McVAY	2nd

 

[data]

Furthermore, getting stricter, the AFCC/NFCC has been coached by a HC getting there within the first 3 years (or took a previous team within 3 years) of his tenure 88% of the time (49/56).

Only coaches taking longer than 3 years was Holmgren (Packers 4yr, Seahawks 4yr), Brad Childress (Vikings 4yr), Mike Smith (Falcons 5yr), Pete Carroll 2x (Seahawks 4yr), Ron Rivera (Panthers 5yr) and Mike Zimmer (Vikings 4yr).

To minimize stats being skewed, even removing Belichick's 10 appearances is still 85% (39/46). Removing the next highest HC would be 9 total (3 each for Tomlin, Jim Harbaugh and Sean Payton), so 81% (30/37).
--------
Correlation seems quite strong that if you haven't reached AFCC/NFCC by Year 3, you've had your chance. As for reaching the Super Bowl, only Holmgren, Pete Carroll and Ron Rivera have taken longer than three years.

 

[data]

In Garrett's defense, at best, you can consider 2018 as Year 2 with his 'new' team of Dak/Zeke core, throwing out last year due to Zeke's suspension. In 2019, if he doesn't make the NFCC, statistics trend him to never make it; Even if he has another Wild Card win or #1 seed, should be on a short leash.

 

[deadrise]

Away from the cameras, Jason Garrett reiterated his stance that he does not anticipate significant changes on the coaching staff, but acknowledged there have not been any discussions with the coaches or the front office. He was asked if he has final authority on the staff and said, “Like with everything they’re all collaborative decisions. I do not own the team. Jerry Jones owns the team. Ultimately, he has final say over everything we do here. But I do believe our relationship is very collaborative. I have a tremendous amount of faith and trust in him and hopefully he has the same for me.”

Todd Archer, ESPN Staff Writer

"I have a tremendous amount of faith and trust in him ..."

I'm surprised Garrett could get that out with Jerry's dick in his mouth.

 

[mcnuttz]

Here's how a competent front office would evaluate Garrett's worth.

As it currently stands it looks like the only way that this team can possibly advance past the Divisional Round is if Garrett is given an all-star set of coordinators to prop him up. But as we all know, great coordinators don't stay coordinators for long. They'll usually ascend to HC positions fairly quickly. So even if Jerry Jones went out and found the Cowboys the best set of coordinators money could be, 1-2 years later we'd be right back in the same position where we're struggling to remain relevant with an average HC with average coaching skills.

Some coaches are clearly "the system". Meaning they provide solid results regardless of who their coordinators are. We see it with Reid, Belicheck, Tomlin, Saban, and Carroll most notably.

Garrett's clearly not that guy. He needs a strong staff to prop him up. And as I mentioned above, if they were to get rid of Linehan and somehow landed "the next Sean McVay" as the new OC, 2 years from now we're right back where we started from because that OC has likely been hired elsewhere.

So what's the point of playing this game of yo-yo? I'd fire Linehan and Garrett and do my best to find a coach who has potential to be "the system".

Last thing......think about this. Garrett's going on a decade here in Dallas. That's a lifetime by NFL coaching standards. Can anyone point to a coach from the "Garrett coaching tree"? All the other successful coaches who have been around as long as Garrett have had assistants depart for bigger and better jobs elsewhere. Unless I'm completely blanking on someone, I can't think of a single former assistant from Garrett's staff who was offered a better job elsewhere. For any other sane organization that would be a red flag.

Right there with you 100%, and that's why I hope Jerry comes up with a plan to get Garrett into the front office.

If he's had any input at all with the player acquisition, both draft and FA, he is to be commended. If he works well with McClay, I would be interested in keeping him on in this kind of capacity. Let him help find the RKG's, but let someone else coach them.

 

[Genghis Khan]

Let your imagination run wild with how this relevant this is for our Garrett situation.

If a coach hasn't gotten their team to an AFC/NFC Championship by their 5th year, it's almost 100% they never will. Below are the AFCC/NFCC coaches going back to 2005 -- that's 56 coaches.

- 34/56 times (60%) a coach led their team within 5 years (Year as coach listed below).
- An additional 20/56 times (36%) it was one of the above coaches (AFCC/NFCC within 5 years) that led the same team to more AFCC/NFCC after their 5th year (marked as 'yes' below).
- That's 96% total (54/56) that AFCC/NFCC has been coached by someone with upfront success.
-----------
- Only two times did it take the coach longer than their first 5 years to reach the AFCC/NFCC - Andy Reid (Chiefs) this year and Holmgren (Seahawks) in 2005. Holmgren took 7 years in Seattle, but did it in 4 years with the Packers. This is Andy Reid's 6th year with the Chiefs but did it in 3 years with the Eagles.

- Interesting how many one-and-done's are on this list (9 total) -- Norv Turner, Jim Caldwell, John Fox (twice), Chuck Pagano, Whisenhunt, Brad Childress, Mike Smith and Bruce Arians...(Excluded 4 more - Marrone, Pederson, Quinn and McVay still with current team and haven't hit their 5th year yet. Didn't count Kubiak since he's medical leave)

SEASON (AFC)	TEAM	TEAM	COACH	YEAR		COACH	YEAR
2005	Steelers	Broncos	Cowher	yes		Shanahan	yes
2006	Colts	Patriots	Dungy	yes		Belichick	yes
2007	Patriots	Chargers	Belichick	yes		NORV TURNER	1st
2008	Steelers	Ravens	TOMLIN	2nd		HARBAUGH	1st
2009	Colts	Jets	CALDWELL	1st		REX RYAN	1st
2010	Steelers	Jets	TOMLIN	4th		REX RYAN	2nd
2011	Patriots	Ravens	Belichick	yes		HARBAUGH	4th
2012	Ravens	Patriots	HARBAUGH	5th		Belichick	yes
2013	Broncos	Patriots	FOX	3rd		Belichick	yes
2014	Patriots	Colts	Belichick	yes		PAGANO	3rd
2015	Broncos	Patriots	KUBIAK	1st		Belichick	yes
2016	Patriots	Steelers	Belichick	yes		Tomlin	yes
2017	Patriots	Jaguars	Belichick	yes		MARRONE	1st
2018	Chiefs	Patriots	Reid	NOPE		Belichick	yes
SEASON (NFC)
2005	Seahawks	Panthers	Holmgren	NOPE		FOX	4th
2006	Bears	Saints	LOVIE S.	3rd		PAYTON	1st
2007	Giants	Packers	COUGHLIN	4th		McCARTHY	2nd
2008	Cardinals	Eagles	WHISENHUNT	2nd		Reid	yes
2009	Saints	Vikings	PAYTON	4th		CHILDRESS	4th
2010	Packers	Bears	MCCARTHY	5th		LOVIE S.	yes
2011	Giants	49ers	Coughlin	yes		HARBAUGH	1st
2012	49ers	Falcons	HARBAUGH	2nd		MIKE SMITH	5th
2013	Seahawks	49ers	CARROLL	4th		HARBAUGH	3rd
2014	Seahawks	Packers	CARROLL	5th		McCarthy	yes
2015	Panthers	Cardinals	RIVERA	5th		ARIANS	3rd
2016	Falcons	Packers	DAN QUINN	2nd		McCarthy	yes
2017	Eagles	Vikings	PEDERSON	2nd		ZIMMER	4th
2018	Saints	Rams	Payton	yes		McVAY	2nd

To play devils advocate, by far the biggest reason for this is that most coaches are fired by this point .

 

[Cowboysrock55]

To play devils advocate, by far the biggest reason for this is that most coaches are fired by this point .

Yeah very few coaches last that long in the NFL.

 

[jsmith6919]

 

[Cotton]

 

[Smitty]

To play devils advocate, by far the biggest reason for this is that most coaches are fired by this point .

True.

But I think it's completely reasonable to wonder if this is as far as Garrett can take the team -- either by "coaching it up" or by influencing player acquisition.

Cause if you are being honest with yourself, this Cowboy team kinda reached about their ceiling. I don't think Garrett underachieved with this group. He may have even overachieved. But then that brings up the point, how come this team never seems to be on par with the Rams or Saints of the world? We are always a team that feels undermanned by this time of the playoffs.

 

[jsmith6919]

 

[Cotton]

True.

But I think it's completely reasonable to wonder if this is as far as Garrett can take the team -- either by "coaching it up" or by influencing player acquisition.

Cause if you are being honest with yourself, this Cowboy team kinda reached about their ceiling. I don't think Garrett underachieved with this group. He may have even overachieved. But then that brings up the point, how come this team never seems to be on par with the Rams or Saints of the world? We are always a team that feels undermanned by this time of the playoffs.

You're just trolling at this point. Have to be. No way you actually believe any of this.