Archer: 5 Wonders - Can Jason Hatcher play DE?

Cotton

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5 Wonders: Can Jason Hatcher play DE?

July, 23, 2013

By Todd Archer | ESPNDallas.com


OXNARD, Calif. – With the Cowboys beginning their third day of training camp practice today, there’s no better time than now to break out Five Wonders, the award-winning blog post -- and by award-winning, I mean in the eyes of my two daughters.

On to the Wonders:

The Cowboys say they will keep their search for defensive end help largely inside the building withTyrone Crawford out for the year with a torn Achilles. While some of you want to go out and sign a John Abraham or even a Richard Seymour, I wonder if the Cowboys might give Jason Hatcher a look at defensive end. It’s a two-for-one move to a degree and that’s never good. You might be taking away a strength at tackle. But Hatcher might have the ability to spell Anthony Spencer from time to time the way Crawford would and Sean Lissemore could play more tackle in pass rushing situations. Hatcher said he would be open to a move if needed.


Is it too early to wonder about playing time in the preseason? Maybe, but I wonder if the Cowboys play their regulars a little bit more than they have in the past because of the change to the 4-3 and the change in offensive playcaller in Bill Callahan. As much as Jason Garrett likes to do situational work in practice for the players, he might want to do it for Callahan too. The coach has to knock some of the rust off his play-calling skills since he hasn’t done it in so long. And there’s this wonder within a wonder: does Tony Romo need more playing time because he did not have an offseason due to the back surgery?


It’s way too early to speculate on this subject since Demetress Bell is not in good enough shape to practice yet, but I wonder if the Cowboys could use their veteran depth as a potential trade bait. Now, this is all provided Bell plays well and a lot better than he did a year ago in Philadelphia. He or Jermey Parnell could be attractive to other teams as a potential need fit because of injuries and both come at decent prices. Parnell counts $1.35 million against the cap. Bell counts $555,000. I think the Bell signing was more to help the Cowboys get through training camp with quality enough backup play to make things a little easier for Kyle Orton, but in the back of my mind there’s a possibility here.


Let’s get back on the subject of Spencer here for a moment. The Cowboys did not really come close to a long-term deal for him before a July 15 deadline, which means he will play this year on the franchise tag ($10.6 million). Teams can’t pay everybody, and Spencer would represent a decent financial commitment with guys like Sean Lee and Bruce Cartercoming up into free-agent years. With that in mind, I wonder if we need to look back at Tampa Bay’s defense under Monte Kiffin for how money gets structured. At defensive end,Simeon Rice got paid the big bucks. The other guys – Chidi Ahanotu, Marcus Jones and Greg Spires – were paid OK but not great. With the Cowboys, DeMarcus Ware gets the big bucks. I wonder if there’s just not enough for Spencer.


I wonder when the Cowboys move to their new practice facility in the next few years – and Frisco is believed to be the leader in the clubhouse over Irving and Arlington – if they will hold at least a portion of training camp there. The weather is an obstacle, but Miami manages to deal with the hot and sticky stuff with the option of going indoors if they want every now and again. But there’s a reason why teams are opting to practice at home more. Their facilities have places for fans to watch the show, and don’t think that doesn’t matter. It does. Teams can make some cash on their own through parking and concessions instead of running out to colleges or other spots for practice. That is not an option presently at Valley Ranch. There is no place to put fans. A new facility would undoubtedly have either permanent or portable seating for fans and plenty of parking.
 

boozeman

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He may have to.

Then that just makes the interior DL with Ratliff's stupid ass a problem. You can't win.
 

Cotton

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Simpleton

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I think Hatcher could definitely play some LDE in this scheme, if you look at what Seattle does they have basically 3 DT's at LDE-DT-DT and then the "Leo" pass-rusher at RDE, which would be Ware for us. The problem is we'd need Ratliff's fool self to stay healthy and productive and for Lissemore, Hayden or somebody to be able to play starter's snaps next to him.
 

boozeman

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That is what makes this all so very frustrating. It wasn't like we couldn't see this coming even with healthy guys. Ratliff has been an on-going problem. But like most everything else except for getting a new TE or WR, we took the Alfred E. Neuman approach.
 

boozeman

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I think Hatcher could definitely play some LDE in this scheme, if you look at what Seattle does they have basically 3 DT's at LDE-DT-DT and then the "Leo" pass-rusher at RDE, which would be Ware for us. The problem is we'd need Ratliff's fool self to stay healthy and productive and for Lissemore, Hayden or somebody to be able to play starter's snaps next to him.
Kiffin said they may do "like Green Bay does". That still doesn't solve the problem. Do we have a Red Bryant? A B.J. Raji? No.
 

Simpleton

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That is what makes this all so very frustrating. It wasn't like we couldn't see this coming even with healthy guys. Ratliff has been an on-going problem. But like most everything else except for getting a new TE or WR, we took the Alfred E. Neuman approach.
Yea, we address everything except for TE, CB or WR an offseason late and a dollar short. We all knew during this last offseason that we needed to address depth on the DL and/or plan for the future with the aging starters but it won't be addressed until next offseason because Jerry and the braintrust are football idiots who have no foresight or understanding as to how to build a roster.
 

ravidubey

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Ratliff should play DE and Hatcher should take Ratliff's spot. The 1-technique is the biggest hole on the line. Richard Seymour is out there...
 

boozeman

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Ratliff should play DE and Hatcher should take Ratliff's spot. The 1-technique is the biggest hole on the line. Richard Seymour is out there...
Ratliff can't play 4-3 end....please. He could have done 3-4, but we never bothered to try that.
 

ravidubey

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Ratliff can't play 4-3 end....please. He could have done 3-4, but we never bothered to try that.
??

He played both DE and DT in college and has the quickness and lateral pursuit required of the LDE position. He's also a better pass rusher than Hatcher, and though 3 technique is perfect for Ratliff, it is also Hatcher's natural position. Ratliff is a perfect fit body-wise as a strong side DE and is a good 15 pounds lighter than Hatcher (You want a 300 pound 4-3 DE??).

Anything Hatcher could have done as a DE, Ratliff can do better.

The 3-technique gets double-teamed occasionally by offensive linemen. The LDE goes one on one most of the time and if he's doubled it's with a OL and a TE. I want my best lineman/pass rusher to have the most favorable match-up.
 

Clay_Allison

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??

He played both DE and DT in college and has the quickness and lateral pursuit required of the LDE position. He's also a better pass rusher than Hatcher, and though 3 technique is perfect for Ratliff, it is also Hatcher's natural position. Ratliff is a perfect fit body-wise as a strong side DE and is a good 15 pounds lighter than Hatcher (You want a 300 pound 4-3 DE??).

Anything Hatcher could have done as a DE, Ratliff can do better.

The 3-technique gets double-teamed occasionally by offensive linemen. The LDE goes one on one most of the time and if he's doubled it's with a OL and a TE. I want my best lineman/pass rusher to have the most favorable match-up.

Ratliff doesn't have the length or speed to turn the corner on an NFL OT.
 

boozeman

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??

He played both DE and DT in college and has the quickness and lateral pursuit required of the LDE position. He's also a better pass rusher than Hatcher
Was.
, and though 3 technique is perfect for Ratliff, it is also Hatcher's natural position. Ratliff is a perfect fit body-wise as a strong side DE and is a good 15 pounds lighter than Hatcher (You want a 300 pound 4-3 DE??).
Since you are throwing out college stuff, Hatcher played defensive end at 284 in college, not tackle.

Hatcher also gained pounds this year to play inside, he's at 305. And you do realize is basically Ratliff is a 303 pound guy right? Especially if he has been sitting on his ass for practically an entire year.

Anything Hatcher could have done as a DE, Ratliff can do better.
Could.

The 3-technique gets double-teamed occasionally by offensive linemen. The LDE goes one on one most of the time and if he's doubled it's with a OL and a TE. I want my best lineman/pass rusher to have the most favorable match-up.
And right now, Hatcher, believe it or not, is better.

If Ratliff were the guy we knew three years ago, I'd buy this. But he quite simply is not. He is not reliable anymore.
 

ravidubey

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Not sure where you're getting the 303 from. Was this his TC weigh in? The Ratliff I know is 290 soaking wet, and much closer to the 275-285 I'd like to see from an LDE. Hatcher is a good player and would be a fine 3-technique, and he's been at 300 for several years. Not saying he can't be a LDE, but he's a bit big and I don't think he's quick enough.

Incidentally Crawford (pre Achilles) at 280 was a pass rushing specialist DE at Boise State and would have been a perfect LDE.

All I can go on is the Ratliff we last saw play-- and that guy is lighter, quicker, a better pass rusher, and has the hustle and will to run required from the DE position. I've seen Ratliff chase much faster runners with no hope of catching them only to come up with a big fumble recovery for his efforts. That kind of play is not in Hatcher's DNA.
 

boozeman

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Not sure where you're getting the 303 from.
Straight off the official site. Everything I see about Ratliff is in the 300 pound range.

All I can go on is the Ratliff we last saw play-- and that guy is lighter, quicker, a better pass rusher, and has the hustle and will to run required from the DE position. I've seen Ratliff chase much faster runners with no hope of catching them only to come up with a big fumble recovery for his efforts. That kind of play is not in Hatcher's DNA.
And you are stuck where a lot of people are concerning Ratliff...in 2009.
 

Carp

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Shit...for years we have wanted Ratliff at DE in the 3-4 or a DT in a 4-3...now we want to put him at DE? F that.
 

boozeman

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Really? Crawford is a speed rusher now?
Since when is a LDE regarded as a primary speed rusher? There were two things...speed and length. Crawford has a little of both.

Lookit, I am not going to get involved with you in an argument involving a guy you don't like. You make up your mind and that's it.

We saw it with Stephen Bowen. BTW, he's still fine.
 
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