PFT: Jones’ history makes a trade up or down in round one likely

boozeman

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Jerry Jones’ history makes a trade up or down in round one likely

Posted by Mike Florio on April 15, 2014, 1:02 PM EDT



The first question that arises when linking Pitt defensive tackle Aaron Donald to the Cowboys is whether Donald will be on the board when the Cowboys pick at No. 16.

The better question may be whether the Cowboys would trade up to get him.

In 20 of the 25 drafts run by Cowboys owner/G.M. Jerry Jones, he has made a trade up or a trade down in round one. Twenty of 25.

Eighty percent of the time, Jones makes a move.

He has traded up. He has traded down. He has traded down multiples times. He has traded down then up.

He has traded two first-round picks for a veteran receiver (Joey Galloway). Jones has traded another first-round pick for another veteran receiver (Roy Williams).

The point is that, more often than not, Jones finds a way to break from the slot he has earned and to make something happen, either by moving up to get a guy he wants or moving down to get some more picks.

So, yes, there’s a great chance Donald won’t be there at No. 16. There’s also a good chance the Cowboys won’t be there at No. 16, either.
 

Smitty

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I don't think I would trade up for Donald. He might actually be getting slightly overrated because he's the only one with the capability to do what he does at the top of this draft.

Fortunately for us, for friggin' once, we have a player who can do what he does in Melton, already.

I mean, explain to me why Taylor Lewan or Anthony Barr aren't better players than Donald, or at least just as good? They just play positions where we don't have holes that are quite so gaping as our DL, which is a mess.

I like Donald a lot but he's hardly a must-get for me in this draft. Frankly there are guys like Dominique Easley that I also like as a 3 technique later, in the 2nd or 3rd rounds. Sutton could fill that role too.
 
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Clay_Allison

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I wouldn't trade up in this draft at all, if anything, trade down and grab more picks. We have too many holes in this roster to spend multiple picks on a single player.
 

Smitty

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I'd trade up if we wanted a QB.

And I might live with it if we traded up for someone like Khalil Mack, Jadaveon Clowney, or Greg Robinson or Jake Matthews, who was falling. They are truly elite studs.

But outside those top couple guys or QBs, I think guys like Barr, Lewan, Donald, etc, are all similar players who would be top-10 type picks in any year. So I'll take any of them at 16 without overpaying. And I think one will be there.
 

Clay_Allison

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If we take Barr that's a big win. Of the guys who might be there at 16 he's #1 on my wish list. I think he has productive pass rusher written all over him.
 

boozeman

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If we take Barr that's a big win. Of the guys who might be there at 16 he's #1 on my wish list. I think he has productive pass rusher written all over him.
The more I watch Barr the more I get worried about his game not being well rounded enough to contribute right away in this defense. He is basically like Ware, nothing but speed and has trouble disengaging from blockers. If someone gets into his chest, he really has a hard time. If we moved him around in a true hybrid fashion like Seattle does Bruce Irvin, yeah. But I don't think Marinelli is going to have this defense play the same kind of concepts. I would be shocked, let's put it that way.
 

Clay_Allison

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The more I watch Barr the more I get worried about his game not being well rounded enough to contribute right away in this defense. He is basically like Ware, nothing but speed and has trouble disengaging from blockers. If someone gets into his chest, he really has a hard time. If we moved him around in a true hybrid fashion like Seattle does Bruce Irvin, yeah. But I don't think Marinelli is going to have this defense play the same kind of concepts. I would be shocked, let's put it that way.
What the fuck is Marinelli good for if he can't coach a guy like Barr? I don't expect the man to make chicken salad from chicken shit but I'd expect to get more than a hamburger back if I gave him a steak to work with.

Simeon Rice was a one trick pony. A guy who got his sacks in AZ but very few pressures and never played defense against the run at all. He was laughed out of NY when he asked for a big deal in FA and had to sign for less in Tampa. Marinelli made him a real DE that made his fare share of tackles as well as sacks. If he can't do the same for Barr he's not worth what Jerry is paying for him.
 

boozeman

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What the fuck is Marinelli good for if he can't coach a guy like Barr? I don't expect the man to make chicken salad from chicken shit but I'd expect to get more than a hamburger back if I gave him a steak to work with.

Simeon Rice was a one trick pony. A guy who got his sacks in AZ but very few pressures and never played defense against the run at all. He was laughed out of NY when he asked for a big deal in FA and had to sign for less in Tampa. Marinelli made him a real DE that made his fare share of tackles as well as sacks. If he can't do the same for Barr he's not worth what Jerry is paying for him.
It is not just about taking an athlete and turning him into a rusher. He might lack core strength, he might not even care. Taking a guy at 16 (or even trading up) and hoping he gets "coached up" is asinine.

All of this BS about Marinelli working miracles needs to just stop. Barr clearly is not a RDE in a Tampa-type 4-3. Put him with a guy like Ray Horton who uses multiple fronts? Yes. Quinn and Bradley? Yes. Marinelli? He's about as traditional and stuck on prototypes as you can get.
 

Clay_Allison

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It's possible a guy like Barr might have to be a 3rd down guy for a year as he adds weight and strength. I can't see a reason he can't be taught better pass rush technique even if he's been a one dimensional speed rusher in college. It's not like smaller DEs haven't been productive in the Tampa 2 before.
 

boozeman

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It's possible a guy like Barr might have to be a 3rd down guy for a year as he adds weight and strength. I can't see a reason he can't be taught better pass rush technique even if he's been a one dimensional speed rusher in college. It's not like smaller DEs haven't been productive in the Tampa 2 before.
I don't think I am all excited to add a pass rusher that high in the draft that will be a one-trick pony at this stage.

He's got all the talent in the world, but if whomever takes him just puts him at RDE alongside another undersized tackle in a simple 4-3, they are asking for it. He needs to be in a system not as restrictive. He needs to be moving around and have the system fit his unique skills he currently has until you can work on the fundamentals. We just can't do that right now. You want Selvie or worse Mincey starting as our primary end and trotting Barr out there situationally?

To put it mildly, I do not trust Marinelli to get the best of out him. He's good at motivating. "Scheming"...not so much.

If we were running a hybrid or 3-4, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Nor would we all be lusting after what we can't have in Aaron Donald.
 

Smitty

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I'd be excited about landing Barr. He can do a lot of things; if Marinelli can't get it out of him the next coach will get a chance.

We don't have a coaching staff in place that I am comfortable saying "We can only draft guys who fit their vision" because they aren't likely to be here long term.
 

boozeman

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I'd be excited about landing Barr. He can do a lot of things; if Marinelli can't get it out of him the next coach will get a chance.

We don't have a coaching staff in place that I am comfortable saying "We can only draft guys who fit their vision" because they aren't likely to be here long term.
That is true. But frankly, I don't think we have that kind of originality to make it work short term or the smarts to think about it that way long term. Jones has gone on record and stated how the 4-3 is back to stay.
 

Cotton

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I wouldn't trade up in this draft at all, if anything, trade down and grab more picks. We have too many holes in this roster to spend multiple picks on a single player.
Correct. Even for a QB I wouldn't trade up. Not in this draft, at least.
 

Smitty

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That is true. But frankly, I don't think we have that kind of originality to make it work short term or the smarts to think about it that way long term. Jones has gone on record and stated how the 4-3 is back to stay.
He says that until the next coach he brings in wants to change it.
 

Clay_Allison

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I want to get as many talented players, as many playmakers as possible on this team. I hope a guy like Barr can learn some good pass rush technique from Marinelli, and I think he could, but more importantly I think a guy like that will be a good piece for the next coach to use to rebuild this defense, which will be biblically awful in 2014 no matter who we draft.
 

Smitty

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If a guy like Manziel fell to 8 or 9, I'd be calling and seeing what the price is for sure.
 

Cotton

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It is not just about taking an athlete and turning him into a rusher. He might lack core strength, he might not even care. Taking a guy at 16 (or even trading up) and hoping he gets "coached up" is asinine.

All of this BS about Marinelli working miracles needs to just stop. Barr clearly is not a RDE in a Tampa-type 4-3. Put him with a guy like Ray Horton who uses multiple fronts? Yes. Quinn and Bradley? Yes. Marinelli? He's about as traditional and stuck on prototypes as you can get.
Yep.
 

Clay_Allison

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If a guy like Manziel fell to 8 or 9, I'd be calling and seeing what the price is for sure.
I admit I'd make that call, not because it's the right thing to do, just because I'd be tempted to see if the price isn't too high.
 

boozeman

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I admit I'd make that call, not because it's the right thing to do, just because I'd be tempted to see if the price isn't too high.
Given how Jones has publicly advertised his man love for him? There would be rape.
 
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