Kavner: Defensive Move To 4-3 Made Cowboys Pass On Floyd

Cotton

One-armed Knife Sharpener
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
119,732
Defensive Move To 4-3 Made Cowboys Pass On Floyd
Posted 16 minutes ago

Rowan Kavner
DallasCowboys.com Staff Writer


IRVING, Texas – Sharrif Floyd’s first-round grade from the Cowboys had a lot more to do with his overall talent than his fit in the new defensive scheme.

The Cowboys were heavily criticized for leaving the highly-touted defensive line prospect on the board and moving back in the first round last year. Executive vice president Stephen Jones said that choice had a lot to do with the change to the 4-3, which the grade may not have reflected, and he believes the team made the right decision in the end.

“I feel like we had him graded right, yes,” Jones said. “Did we have him graded right for our system? That’s debatable.”


Jones said it was an unfortunate situation with Floyd, but he credited owner/general manager Jerry Jones for being reasonable enough to judge the player’s fit and decide to pass and move back in the first round. He knows the team got criticized for the move, but he said it would have been a mistake to take Floyd at that spot based on the Cowboys’ new defense.

By trading back, the Cowboys were able to grab both Travis Frederick and Terrance Williams.

“I don’t want to single a guy out, but I think that can happen when you change a system and you move from what we were doing,” Stephen Jones said, “and we were so into that and then all of a sudden you move to a 4-3 and you’ve got new coaches in the room and what they’re trying to accomplish, then that one kind of slipped through the cracks a little bit on us. It won’t happen again.”

He said the first pick of a draft needs to be a great, difference-making player on the team. It shouldn’t be a player that may not fit, even if that player can be a force in other systems.


Floyd ended up going as the No. 23 pick to the Vikings, where he finished the 2013 season with 19 combined tackles and 2.5 sacks in Minnesota’s 4-3 defense.

“You have some players that you have issues with because they don’t fit your system necessarily,” Jones said. “Even though Sharrif may have been a first-round type player in our old system, he might not have been a first-round player for what we want in our system as an under tackle. I mean, we think in our system we can find nose tackles later in the draft that do a good job. I think under tackles are hard to find, great ones are.”

A schism can occur between coaches and scouts when evaluating a player. Jones said he’s had a great couple weeks with the coaches getting into what they want from draft picks and what they need for the defense to be successful. These measures should ensure a similar situation doesn’t happen again.

“Obviously, we’ve got to take into an account that you want to take players that can be successful in any system,” Jones said. “But at the same time, how you value them and where you put them should be weighed.”
 

Carp

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
15,127
Jesus...our board is fucking stupid.
 

Carp

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
15,127
If we did not have Warford on the board because of our system then why the fuck do you have Floyd on the board at all. I mean I guess you could use it to gauge trade value, but only if all players are on the board...which was not the case.
 

boozeman

28 Years And Counting...
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
121,759
It is bullshit.

The move to the 4-3 did not make that happen.

Our lack of communication from the coaches to the scouts making the board made that happen.

If you have a board constructed in January and your owner fires the DC and things changed overnight, you meet on it and get on the same page.

Us?

We get Jerry getting confused when his board says one thing and Old Man Kiffin is telling him we had too many DLs and he had to sit on the floor for a meeting. ON THE DAY WE ARE DRAFTING.

If we had a real GM, he would know what Floyd could do and could make a decision based on experience from what he has seen. Not to the detail of the scouts, but it would be far above what Jones gets exposed to.

If McClay helps that, fine. But all in all, the name of the game is giving Jones the right information.

That is one of the real big deals with having the guy with the final say treating it like a part-time hobby.
 

Bluestar71

Brand New Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
602
If we did not have Warford on the board because of our system then why the fuck do you have Floyd on the board at all. I mean I guess you could use it to gauge trade value, but only if all players are on the board...which was not the case.
Don't try and apply logic and reason to the thought processes of the Jones clan. They don't apply.

This is just more after the fact bullshit generated to try and explain away their chaotic and inexplicable draft day floundering.
 

lostxn

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
7,874
I'm kind of tired of the Floyd thing. Yeah it represents a breakdown in the mechanics of how our drafts should work but it worked out in the end. Is there anyone here who would rather have Floyd than Frederick AND Terrence Williams. Both of these guys could be starters for a decade. Frederick might end up being a Pro Bowler.
 

Cotton

One-armed Knife Sharpener
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
119,732
But all in all, the name of the game is giving Jones the right information.

That is one of the real big deals with having the guy with the final say treating it like a part-time hobby.
According to Stephen, McClay and Ciskowski have tons of input along with the other scouts.

So, get your shit straight.
 

Cotton

One-armed Knife Sharpener
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
119,732
I'm kind of tired of the Floyd thing. Yeah it represents a breakdown in the mechanics of how our drafts should work but it worked out in the end. Is there anyone here who would rather have Floyd than Frederick AND Terrence Williams. Both of these guys could be starters for a decade. Frederick might end up being a Pro Bowler.
It's just yet another example of how dysfunctional this organization is. And, it can't be stated enough.
 

GForce78NJ

Not So New Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
1,301
it's not like Sharrif Floyd is lighting the world on fire in Minnesota... he had 2.5 sacks and 19 total tackles. I like Frederick and Terrence Williams a lot more after 1 year than Floyd
 

Carp

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
15,127
It has very little to do with Floyd...it is when you rank a guy #5 on your board, but have no intention of drafting him because he does not fit your scheme.
 

GShock

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
6,384
Jones said it was an unfortunate situation with Floyd, but he credited owner/general manager Jerry Jones
:lol "I'd give a lot of credit to Deddy, uh, the General Manager."

“I don’t want to single a guy out, but I think that can happen when you change a system and you move from what we were doing,” Stephen Jones said, “and we were so into that and then all of a sudden you move to a 4-3 and you’ve got new coaches in the room and what they’re trying to accomplish, then that one kind of slipped through the cracks a little bit on us.
I don't know what's worse - that it happened or that you would admit it. Everyone knows that teams spend months on the draft, carefully weighing each and every decision, but the scrutiny for the first round players is especially intense, because you want to make sure you get it absolutely right. And our position, the story we go with a year later, our best explanation is that in that incredibly exhaustive process, we neglected to take into account that Rob Ryan had left the building.

Inexcusable.

Honestly, I would have lied rather than admit such gross incompetence. I would have denied that Floyd was on our board. If they produced photographs, I would claim they were photoshopped. I would have claimed that we were considering playing a mashup of Pink Floyd and I Shot the Sherriff while we waited for picks to come off in the first round. There is just no way, as a representative of a front office that everyone already perceives as totally incompetent, that I would have admitted to such stupidity.

There has to be a long con going here, right? I mean, this is like Home Alone-style buffoonery.
 

Cowboysrock55

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
52,465
I don't know what's worse - that it happened or that you would admit it.
That's what I don't get. I mean was that the first time Kiffin or Marinelli had seen the Cowboys Big Board? I mean why the hell didn't one of them see that before hand and go "hey Jerry, you have a guy at 5 who should be at 65 in our scheme." Is our organization half assing the draft that badly? Marinelli and Kiffin have been at this long enough that I really struggle for that to be the case. The only thing I can think of is that Jerry didn't care what they thought and then on draft day they were finally able to get his attention on convince him otherwise.

Or it could just be that Jerry was dead locked into an O-lineman and needed an excuse to pass on the fifth player on his board. It worked out for us last year but if you're passing on the fifth player in the draft in the second half of the first round most years you would be making a huge mistake.
 

Cotton

One-armed Knife Sharpener
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
119,732
Cowboys coaches, scouts get on same page

February, 20, 2014

By Todd Archer | ESPNDallas.com


INDIANAPOLIS -- In an effort to avoid the miscommunication that led the Dallas Cowboys to pass on the fifth-ranked player on their board while holding the 18th pick in the first round in last year's draft, the defensive coaches spent the last two weeks discussing with the scouts the characteristics of the players they want in their 4-3 scheme.

Last year the Cowboys passed on Sharrif Floyd in part because he was not a fit for what Monte Kiffin and Rod Marinelli wanted in a defensive lineman. During last year's draft owner and general manager Jerry Jones said Floyd did not have the "quick twitch" the Cowboys needed at defensive tackle.

If that was the case, then Floyd should not have been rated so highly.

"That was unfortunate with Sharrif," executive vice president Stephen Jones said. "I don't want to single a guy out, but I think that can happen when you change a system. You move from what we were doing and we were so into that, and then all of a sudden you move to a 4-3 and you've got new coaches in the room and what they're trying to accomplish and that kind of slipped through the cracks a bit on us. It won't happen again."

The Minnesota Vikings drafted Floyd with the No. 23 overall pick and he had 2.5 sacks as a rookie. Jones felt the Cowboys evaluated the player correctly but not when it related to the Cowboys' scheme.

"You have some players that you have issues with because they don't fit your system necessarily," Jones said. "Even though Sharrif may have been a first-round type player in our old system, he might not have been a first-round player for what we want in our system as an under tackle. I mean, we think in our system we can find nose tackles later in the draft that do a good job. I think under tackles are hard to find, great ones are."
 

Simpleton

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
17,418
This is mostly bullshit, especially since most felt Floyd was an ideal fit in a 4-3 Tampa type of scheme.
 

skidadl

El Presidente'
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
11,888
I'm guessing that he board was what it should have been and the Jer came swooping in with a brilliant plan. Hopefully the plan accidentally works in spite of him.
 

Simpleton

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
17,418
I'm guessing that he board was what it should have been and the Jer came swooping in with a brilliant plan. Hopefully the plan accidentally works in spite of him.
I'd say it already has.

Floyd could still be a very good DT, and I wouldn't point at 2.5 sacks as a rookie as evidence that he won't be, but I'd take Frederick over him either way unless he somehow ends up being the next Geno Atkins.
 
Top Bottom